Editing Talk:Bowser Baddies

==Split from Koopa Troop==
{{TPP}}
Bowser Baddies currently redirects to the Koopa Troop article, and in the Japanese version of ''Mario & Luigi'', [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nhlxvCdmN3M&t=7m Bowser indeed refers to them with basically the same term] [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQpil126MC8&t=6m13s used in ''Super Mario RPG'']. However, the group is clearly given different treatment here - for one, they are visibly a much smaller division than other games, and for another, all assembled members are somewhat large Koopa Troopas wearing aviator gear. The role they play is also non-hostile, which could be due to the circumstances in the storyline, but they seem to act more like general-purpose crewmembers of the Koopa Cruiser than combat-ready troops (incidentally explaining how they got wasted by the new villains so easily).

'''Proposer''': {{User|LinkTheLefty}}<br>
'''Deadline''': April 9, 2015, 23:59 GMT.

===Support===
#{{User|LinkTheLefty}} Per proposal.

===Oppose===
#{{User|Walkazo}} - Bowser's Koopas are called so many different things across their appearances, if we split one subsection of it we might as well split them all because for all we know, any of the other nicknames could refer to different specific groups of Koopas loyal to Bowser. No, in this case, best to keep it all in one place.
#{{User|LudwigVon}} - Per Walkazo
#{{User|Burningdragon25}} I agree with Walkazo in this one. We already have the Koopa Troop and with that, I say per Walkazo.

===Comments===
Let's not forget that the endgame enemies at Bowser's Castle are treated independently from the Bowser Baddies, and that particular group definitely fits the "usual" context of Koopa Troop/Koopa clan/Turtle Tribe/etc. It's true that Bowser's army goes by many names, but they're used just about interchangeably (except arguably the terms used in the ''Super Show'', which can't seem to decide if it's for King Koopa's forces, his recurring trio of followers, or both). There's also the fact that Bowser refers to his Baddies as his "crew" in the game's early dialog, which gives off the impression that they're primarily Koopa Cruiser workers in the first place. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 16:55, 2 April 2015 (EDT)
@@ Line 1: / Line 1: @@
 ==Split from Koopa Troop==
-{{Settled TPP}}
+{{TPP}}
-{{Proposal outcome|red|don't split 2-3}}
 Bowser Baddies currently redirects to the Koopa Troop article, and in the Japanese version of ''Mario & Luigi'', [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nhlxvCdmN3M&t=7m Bowser indeed refers to them with basically the same term] [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQpil126MC8&t=6m13s used in ''Super Mario RPG'']. However, the group is clearly given different treatment here - for one, they are visibly a much smaller division than other games, and for another, all assembled members are somewhat large Koopa Troopas wearing aviator gear. The role they play is also non-hostile, which could be due to the circumstances in the storyline, but they seem to act more like general-purpose crewmembers of the Koopa Cruiser than combat-ready troops (incidentally explaining how they got wasted by the new villains so easily).
@@ Line 9: / Line 8: @@
 ===Support===
 #{{User|LinkTheLefty}} Per proposal.
-#{{User|Pseudo-dino}} Per LinkTheLefty's comment.
 ===Oppose===
@@ Line 18: / Line 16: @@
 ===Comments===
 Let's not forget that the endgame enemies at Bowser's Castle are treated independently from the Bowser Baddies, and that particular group definitely fits the "usual" context of Koopa Troop/Koopa clan/Turtle Tribe/etc. It's true that Bowser's army goes by many names, but they're used just about interchangeably (except arguably the terms used in the ''Super Show'', which can't seem to decide if it's for King Koopa's forces, his recurring trio of followers, or both). There's also the fact that Bowser refers to his Baddies as his "crew" in the game's early dialog, which gives off the impression that they're primarily Koopa Cruiser workers in the first place. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 16:55, 2 April 2015 (EDT)
-In response to Walkazo, it seems clear that Bowser Baddies, in this case, ''does'' refer to a specific group and not Bowser's army in general. I understand what you're getting at, but there is actually solid evidence that this term does not refer to Bowser's whole army, just the crew of the Koopa Cruiser. I wouldn't say that enough evidence exists for other names for Bowser's army that are used in other games. [[User:Pseudo-dino|Pseudo-dino]] ([[User talk:Pseudo-dino|talk]]) 13:32, 4 April 2015 (EDT)
-:I don't feel it ''is'' clear: to me, it'd be more speculative to say they're meant to be distinct. Especially since in the Japanese versions (as the proposal itself admits), Bowser calls both the ''M&L'' aviator guys and the completely different set of ''SMRPG'' armored guys based out of the Keep the same thing (クッパ軍団 ''Kuppa-gundan''), so those writers at least were definitely not treating the Koopa Cruiser crew as a specific group. If the army on the flying castle later in the game were called "Koopa Troop" or something other than "Bowser Baddies", you'd have a case (especially if actual Koopa Troopas not in aviator gear were battled), but as it is, it just seems like the ''M&L'' translators were being creative (which happens a lot in the series) with an already inconsistent term (in both languages). The scale in the ''M&L'' series is all over the place in this game due to sprite limitations so the size of the Koopas is irrelevant, and it's ''pure'' speculation to say they're not hostile because they're crewmembers rather than soldiers - it's not like the Koopa Cruiser is a civilian vessel: warships are generally run by members of the military. There's no reason to go beyond their leader agreeing to work with the Bros. to explain why the Koopas were non-hostile, and as for why they got defeated so easily by Cackletta, that happens to the Koopas pretty much ''any'' time a worse threat than Bowser comes along (plus they got shot out of the sky so the troops didn't really get a chance to try and fight). In any case, unless there was concrete evidence that the term specifically meant the crew, I still say it's best to not start down this slippery slope. - {{User:Walkazo/sig}} 16:09, 4 April 2015 (EDT)