Editing Talk:Bowser's Fury

==Cat Counterparts==
{{talk}}
Since we now have [https://www.nintendo.com/jp/character/mario/en/history/3d_fury_world/index.html full confirmation that it is indeed "cat" every time], I'm wondering if we should go ahead and split these from their bases. The situation seems comparable with the "bean" versions of recurring enemies in ''Superstar Saga'', among the many, many, many other examples of similar things that basically only affect how the counterpart looks. The only real question is what to do in cases where there's already a "cat" version in the base game as well as in the new mode, which from what I recall begins and ends with [[Cat Goomba]]. I guess it could be "Cat Goomba (Lake Lapcat)" if they aren't going to just keep merged - note that the web page does not list Cat Goomba on the Fury World list, implying they consider it the same as the one in the base game. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 18:21, January 23, 2025 (EST)
:I Personally don't really think they ought to be split. With the exception of the [[Cat Goomba]] and [[Cat Bullet Bill]], who are the same enemies from 3D World, every single cat enemy is functionally identical to their non-cat counterpart. Its essentially an artstyle difference. --[[User:PopitTart|PopitTart]] ([[User talk:PopitTart|talk]]) 00:24, January 24, 2025 (EST)
::Again, I float regional and other thematic counterparts in other games, such as the Beanish, Shroob, Microscopic/Health-themed, etc. versions from the ''Mario & Luigi'' games. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 00:30, January 24, 2025 (EST)
::: Siding with PopitTart. The enemies in Bowser's Fury are the exact same as their regular ones whereas the regional and other thematic counterparts have various differences (e.g. Beanarang Bros, Shroob Rexes). [[User:PrincessPeachFan|PrincessPeachFan]] ([[User talk:PrincessPeachFan|talk]]) 09:06, January 24, 2025 (EST)

The Beanbean Kingdom enemies are not an artstyle difference, they are more unique enemies that often have their own movesets and different statistics from their regular versions. It's also why we've even split Glohm versions of these enemies. The cat enemies in Bowser's Fury behave exactly as the normal version in Super Mario 3D World with the cat features being entirely aesthetic. This is essentially platformer vs RPG here so it is difficult to fully draw this kind of comparison. {{User:Nightwicked Bowser/sig}} 09:31, January 24, 2025 (EST)
:We do, however, split all the paper enemies in ''Paper Jam'', including the ones that don't have a "normal" counterpart in the game, and even then, the only behavioral differences between the "normal" and "paper" types are almost completely aesthetic or "one pauses at a different time." [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 22:53, January 24, 2025 (EST)
::Well, that game has normal enemies existing alongside their paper counterparts, making it abundantly clear that the paper versions are to be seen distinctly. Bowser's Fury is 100% cats. I would mention the actual ''Paper Mario'' games to continue the comparison, where every enemy is inherently paper.--[[User:PopitTart|PopitTart]] ([[User talk:PopitTart|talk]]) 23:44, January 24, 2025 (EST)
:::They aren't ''named'' differently in the actual ''Paper Mario'' games, and like I said, ''Paper Jam'' had "paper" enemies that didn't have their "normal" counterparts appear, such as [[Swoop]]s. Them appearing as cats (in the side mode) and not as cats (in the main mode) is still them coexisting as separate entities in the game. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 00:02, January 25, 2025 (EST)
::::Paper enemies are not just aesthetic, a lot of them also have different attacks that the regular version doesn't have along with different statistics and are listed seperately for expert challenges, and honestly, them not being named uniquely in the ''Paper Mario'' games doesn't mean shit since it only applies to the one game they're with the normal versions (hence why I recently changed the identifier for [[Paper Mario (Mario & Luigi: Paper Jam)|Paper Mario]]). Again, you're basing this on how RPG enemies are handled when this case is platformer enemies with aesthetics being the only different, and I'm saying it's how enemies are handled between two different types of game genres so it's best for it to be case-by-case rather than blindly attempt to be consistent with everything and keep digging for comparisons. {{User:Nightwicked Bowser/sig}} 06:15, January 25, 2025 (EST)
:::::Them all having official distinct names and distinct designs should be reason enough, IMO. Otherwise we're going to bloat the Niol section for a single game. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 11:39, January 25, 2025 (EST)
:::::: The Cat enemies may have distinct names and distinct designs but that doesn't change the fact that they still have the exact same attacking patterns. [[User:PrincessPeachFan|PrincessPeachFan]] ([[User talk:PrincessPeachFan|talk]]) 08:02, January 26, 2025 (EST)
:::::::And [[Klomp]] has the same attack pattern as [[Kritter]] while being the exact same thing with a superficial "pirate" theme, and we split it. [[Goombo]] is basically the exact same thing as [[Goomba]] and we split them. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 10:55, January 26, 2025 (EST)
::::::::Personally, I see this as more akin to The Origami King's enemies. I know these have "Cat" in their names, and the folded soldiers just use the same names as the non-folded counterparts, but names aren't everything. [[User:Blinker|Blinker]] ([[User talk:Blinker|talk]]) 12:15, January 26, 2025 (EST)

Since Cat Goombas in Bowser's Fury look and behave differently from Cat Goomas in 3D World, does that mean it should get a separate article then? {{fake link|Cat Goomba (''Bowser's Fury'')}}? {{User:Arend/sig}} 12:13, January 26, 2025 (EST)
:The Cat Goombas in Bowser's Fury do however, behave how regular Goombas usually do in the 3D platformers. {{User:Nightwicked Bowser/sig}} 12:18, January 26, 2025 (EST)
::I brought that up initially. Currently, we list them on Cat Goomba's page, which the Portal thing corroborates by not including Cat Goomba among the Lapcat enemies - implying it's not considered "unique" to that mode, unlike the other cats. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 12:35, January 26, 2025 (EST)
@@ Line 19: / Line 19: @@
 :The Cat Goombas in Bowser's Fury do however, behave how regular Goombas usually do in the 3D platformers. {{User:Nightwicked Bowser/sig}} 12:18, January 26, 2025 (EST)
 ::I brought that up initially. Currently, we list them on Cat Goomba's page, which the Portal thing corroborates by not including Cat Goomba among the Lapcat enemies - implying it's not considered "unique" to that mode, unlike the other cats. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 12:35, January 26, 2025 (EST)
-::Which is also why I'm iffy on moving the ''Bowser's Fury'' info from Goomba to Cat Goomba. Given they're both in the same game, yet one behaves more like a regular Goomba while another constantly pounces, makes me think they were not intended to be the same Cat Goomba (and I think they intentionally made it so, because [[Cat Bullet Bill]] has remained the same across the two campaigns). {{User:Arend/sig}} 12:42, January 26, 2025 (EST)
-:::They're ''already'' on the Cat Goomba page, though. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 12:51, January 26, 2025 (EST)
-Another thing to remember is that while several enemies may be the same, they're labeled differently or have different models. For instance, Krunchas are stated to be Krushas in pirate gear but they are wider and get mad and storm back and forth if Diddy or Dixie jump on them by themselves which Krushas never did. [[User:PrincessPeachFan|PrincessPeachFan]] ([[User talk:PrincessPeachFan|talk]]) 11:51, January 30, 2025 (EST)