Editing Talk:Boom Boom
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A small bit of trivia: The Prima guide states that he is the " | A small bit of trivia: The Prima guide states that he is the "Mad Lad". As the Prima Game Guides usually cannot be trusted, I'm wondering whether there is any evidence for this... {{USer:3dejong/sig|boo Prima.}} | ||
... Really? Weird, well, we could mention it in the Koopalings and Boom Boom articles I guess, guidebooks I don't really think should be trusted on matters like this, -- [[User: Sir Grodus|Sir Grodus]] | ... Really? Weird, well, we could mention it in the Koopalings and Boom Boom articles I guess, guidebooks I don't really think should be trusted on matters like this, -- [[User: Sir Grodus|Sir Grodus]] | ||
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== Redundancy == | == Redundancy == | ||
In the appearance section, it says ''Unlike them, he is bald and has no hair.'' which is pretty much saying the same thing twice. I've never known anybody to be bald and have hair (har har). Should I change this, or should somebody else? --[[File: | In the appearance section, it says ''Unlike them, he is bald and has no hair.'' which is pretty much saying the same thing twice. I've never known anybody to be bald and have hair (har har). Should I change this, or should somebody else? --[[File:YoshiMP8a.PNG|35px]] [[User:SuperYoshiBros|<span style=color:blue>Super</span>]][[User talk:SuperYoshiBros|Yoshi]][[Special:Contributions/SuperYoshiBros|Bros]] [[File:YoshiMP8a.PNG|35px]] 20:51, 6 December 2011 (EST) | ||
:It's obviously redundant, so feel free to change it (as long as you do it properly). {{User:Bop1996/sig}} | :It's obviously redundant, so feel free to change it (as long as you do it properly). {{User:Bop1996/sig}} | ||
:actually, you can be bald and have hair; bald only means no hair on your head (unless you are an animal). So you could be bald but have a beard or a mustache. However, having no hair means, well, no hair, so in this case either bald or has no hair will work.[[User:M&L|M&L Just because you're in red doesn't mean you're strong. Have at you!]] 19:38, 31 January 2012 (EST) | :actually, you can be bald and have hair; bald only means no hair on your head (unless you are an animal). So you could be bald but have a beard or a mustache. However, having no hair means, well, no hair, so in this case either bald or has no hair will work.[[User:M&L|M&L Just because you're in red doesn't mean you're strong. Have at you!]] 19:38, 31 January 2012 (EST) | ||
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==Create a Second Page for the Species== | ==Create a Second Page for the Species== | ||
{{ | {{SettledTPP}} | ||
{{ | {{ProposalOutcome|green|make a second page 14-9-1}} | ||
As you can see in the above discussion, there's a lot of inconsistency about Boom Boom. Some sources treat Boom Boom as one specific character, while others say Boom Boom is a species. Right now, all we have is this one Boom Boom page which treats him as a singular character, glossing over the instances where more than one Boom Booms appear onscreen, and not discussing the inconsistent game manual descriptions. I feel that the best way to deal with this situation is to '''keep this character page''' and '''make a ''second'' page for the species'''. It would be called {{fake link|Boom Boom (species)}}, like how [[Birdo (species)]], [[Yoshi (species)]] and [[Toad (species)]] distinguish the eponymous characters from their overall species. It would also work the same way as those pages, with the bulk of the information on this main "Boom Boom" page, and only the stuff that's not the one guy getting moved to the other page. This page would then say that Boom Boom is a Boom Boom who specifically appears in some games, however it would also discuss that there is some ambiguity due to writing styles ("he" also being used for enemies ''known'' to be generic) and conflicting information (i.e. the NES ''SMB3'' sounding like he's one guy, while <i>SMASLE</i>'s ''SMB3'' entry makes it sound like there's a group of them), and the fact that original Japanese offers no insight (since there's no pluralizations or pronouns). The species page would also discuss the precarious situation. | As you can see in the above discussion, there's a lot of inconsistency about Boom Boom. Some sources treat Boom Boom as one specific character, while others say Boom Boom is a species. Right now, all we have is this one Boom Boom page which treats him as a singular character, glossing over the instances where more than one Boom Booms appear onscreen, and not discussing the inconsistent game manual descriptions. I feel that the best way to deal with this situation is to '''keep this character page''' and '''make a ''second'' page for the species'''. It would be called {{fake link|Boom Boom (species)}}, like how [[Birdo (species)]], [[Yoshi (species)]] and [[Toad (species)]] distinguish the eponymous characters from their overall species. It would also work the same way as those pages, with the bulk of the information on this main "Boom Boom" page, and only the stuff that's not the one guy getting moved to the other page. This page would then say that Boom Boom is a Boom Boom who specifically appears in some games, however it would also discuss that there is some ambiguity due to writing styles ("he" also being used for enemies ''known'' to be generic) and conflicting information (i.e. the NES ''SMB3'' sounding like he's one guy, while <i>SMASLE</i>'s ''SMB3'' entry makes it sound like there's a group of them), and the fact that original Japanese offers no insight (since there's no pluralizations or pronouns). The species page would also discuss the precarious situation. | ||
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== Merge "Boom Boom" page to "Boom Boom (species)" and rename it "Boom Boom" == | == Merge "Boom Boom" page to "Boom Boom (species)" and rename it "Boom Boom" == | ||
{{ | {{SettledTPP}} | ||
{{ | {{ProposalOutcome|gray|deleted by user request}} | ||
It was hard to me to make a opinion with this recently, but I come to a fact that I think their is not actually a "character" that is name "Boom Boom", my reason is because in mostly all the games that Boom Boom appear in, Boom Boom don't appear has one character. In Super Mario Bros. 3, I really don't think that Boom Boom is a character because of different powers that Boom Boom have in all the fortress, some even fly and some don't. In New Super Mario Bros. U, It make the most cense that Boom Boom is really a species, because they appear in the top of 6 towers and each of them have different powers that Kamek give to them. I look to some other characters like Koopa Troopa and Shy Guy and their is not really a specific characters that is name Koopa Troopa and Shy Guy (except the one from Mario Party Advance). So the way I would do this I will delete this article because Boom Boom is too much a ambiguous species for the moment to make a article about "the" Boom Boom and make like the Koopa Troopa and Shy Guy a article about the species in general. So, what do you think about it? | It was hard to me to make a opinion with this recently, but I come to a fact that I think their is not actually a "character" that is name "Boom Boom", my reason is because in mostly all the games that Boom Boom appear in, Boom Boom don't appear has one character. In Super Mario Bros. 3, I really don't think that Boom Boom is a character because of different powers that Boom Boom have in all the fortress, some even fly and some don't. In New Super Mario Bros. U, It make the most cense that Boom Boom is really a species, because they appear in the top of 6 towers and each of them have different powers that Kamek give to them. I look to some other characters like Koopa Troopa and Shy Guy and their is not really a specific characters that is name Koopa Troopa and Shy Guy (except the one from Mario Party Advance). So the way I would do this I will delete this article because Boom Boom is too much a ambiguous species for the moment to make a article about "the" Boom Boom and make like the Koopa Troopa and Shy Guy a article about the species in general. So, what do you think about it? | ||
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::Plenty of recurring bosses have different powers from fight to fight, even within single games. Otherwise battles get repetitive, boring and too easy. - {{User:Walkazo/sig}} 20:28, 30 July 2015 (EDT) | ::Plenty of recurring bosses have different powers from fight to fight, even within single games. Otherwise battles get repetitive, boring and too easy. - {{User:Walkazo/sig}} 20:28, 30 July 2015 (EDT) | ||
:::Not, if it get power. Look at Boom Boom from the Acorn Plains's tower in NSMBU, Boom Boom has the same abilities from all fortress from SMB3, but it get power from Kamek in all others towers, that's not it's own power, it get the power. A another good point to this is Bowser himself, in it's simple form in the SMB series, the only thing he do it's spit fireball and jump, but own new abilities from Bowser Jr. in NSMB, Kamek in NSMBWii and NSMBU and the Koopalings in NSMB2. This is a point to observed. The Koopalings in NSMBWii, each of them have the same abilities from SMB3, but get power from Kamek in their castle boss fight.--{{User:LudwigVon/sig}} 23:20, 30 July 2015 (EDT) | :::Not, if it get power. Look at Boom Boom from the Acorn Plains's tower in NSMBU, Boom Boom has the same abilities from all fortress from SMB3, but it get power from Kamek in all others towers, that's not it's own power, it get the power. A another good point to this is Bowser himself, in it's simple form in the SMB series, the only thing he do it's spit fireball and jump, but own new abilities from Bowser Jr. in NSMB, Kamek in NSMBWii and NSMBU and the Koopalings in NSMB2. This is a point to observed. The Koopalings in NSMBWii, each of them have the same abilities from SMB3, but get power from Kamek in their castle boss fight.--{{User:LudwigVon/sig}} 23:20, 30 July 2015 (EDT) | ||
<s>There was a proposal that won not to long ago about creating a page for the species. Why in the world would we want to merge Boom Boom with that? Usually, characters have their own articles and they don't get merged into their spicies page. And to rename the spicies page to Boom Boom... Species shouldn't get renamed to names that don't include "spicies", even if you merge Boom Boom with it. </s>I don't even know who Boom Boom is, but I still don't think this is a good idea. | <s>There was a proposal that won not to long ago about creating a page for the species. Why in the world would we want to merge Boom Boom with that? Usually, characters have their own articles and they don't get merged into their spicies page. And to rename the spicies page to Boom Boom... Species shouldn't get renamed to names that don't include "spicies", even if you merge Boom Boom with it. </s>I don't even know who Boom Boom is, but I still don't think this is a good idea. [[File:PowerKamekSignature.png|150px|link=User:PowerKamek]] | ||
([[User talk:PowerKamek|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/PowerKamek|contribs]]) | |||
<span style="color:red;font-family:monospace">Kamek Power!</span> 23:45, 30 July 2015 (EDT) | |||
:PowerKamek, please elaborate your position, you say per Walkazo, but here in the comments you say you don't even know who Boom Boom is (so my arguments tell that their is not really a Boom Boom character). Why do you really think that's not a good idea, maybe you can check LinkTheLefty's analyst. Thanks!--{{User:LudwigVon/sig}} 13:10, 31 July 2015 (EDT) | :PowerKamek, please elaborate your position, you say per Walkazo, but here in the comments you say you don't even know who Boom Boom is (so my arguments tell that their is not really a Boom Boom character). Why do you really think that's not a good idea, maybe you can check LinkTheLefty's analyst. Thanks!--{{User:LudwigVon/sig}} 13:10, 31 July 2015 (EDT) | ||
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Time Turner, for my part, I think the ambiguity of Boom Boom if there is or not a character from the name of the species is one of the things less than satisfactory that a encyclopedia should rely on. If we relied on the bios of other languages | Time Turner, for my part, I think the ambiguity of Boom Boom if there is or not a character from the name of the species is one of the things less than satisfactory that a encyclopedia should rely on. If we relied on the bios of other languages such as Europe which implies that there are many Boom Boom is still good, Nintendo of America can both make mistakes. Too much reliance on one region (America) may induce more errors on the Super Mario Wiki and for my part, I would like a lot more that this Wiki that I care a lot have the least possible error, because of old guides from NES and SNES. I also believe that LinkTheLefty made a very good analysis of the problems from Boom Boom and that those who voted before LinkTheLefty has put a position on this proposal should read this analysis. So, making a unique article about the species in general would be less ambiguous than two articles that make this really confusing.--{{User:LudwigVon/sig}} 13:36, 31 July 2015 (EDT) | ||
::Honestly I would do the opposite. It would be more correct to leave the page of the character and to delete the page of the species.--[[User:Sonic98|Sonic98]] ([[User talk:Sonic98|talk]]) 13:59, 31 July 2015 (EDT) | ::Honestly I would do the opposite. It would be more correct to leave the page of the character and to delete the page of the species.--[[User:Sonic98|Sonic98]] ([[User talk:Sonic98|talk]]) 13:59, 31 July 2015 (EDT) | ||
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*"the official guide [of SMB3] say mostly all enemies at the singular form (one Goomba, one Koopa and one Boom Boom)" I've gone through the guide, and I don't see that anywhere. I have the guide right here, and the enemies in the giant list of enemies, like the Goomba and the Koopa Troopa you decided to use as examples, are clearly pluralized. Heck, Boom Boom is explicitly referred to as "This Koopa boss", further solidifying its individuality. So, that's one of the best examples to use. | *"the official guide [of SMB3] say mostly all enemies at the singular form (one Goomba, one Koopa and one Boom Boom)" I've gone through the guide, and I don't see that anywhere. I have the guide right here, and the enemies in the giant list of enemies, like the Goomba and the Koopa Troopa you decided to use as examples, are clearly pluralized. Heck, Boom Boom is explicitly referred to as "This Koopa boss", further solidifying its individuality. So, that's one of the best examples to use. | ||
*"Boom Boom in 3D Land, the American version say that Boom Boom is a character, but other version say that Boom Boom is a species (if their is not only one Boom Boom) so, which one is good or not good is difficult to say and 3D World do the same thing." First, it's not the games themselves, or the manual or the guide (which also refers to Boom Boom as a character), but the websites, which is already a distant source. Secondly, the American version clearly refers to Boom Boom as a character; even if there are a couple of other sources that conflict with it, there's still clearly one that's referring to it as a character, and the conflicts just further support having separate articles. You can't cherrypick your sources and dismiss everything that doesn't fit with your image. Also, I haven't seen anyone mention 3D World here (heck, I've been browsing the official websites and I don't even see mention of Boom Boom), so I don't think citing that is appropriate. | *"Boom Boom in 3D Land, the American version say that Boom Boom is a character, but other version say that Boom Boom is a species (if their is not only one Boom Boom) so, which one is good or not good is difficult to say and 3D World do the same thing." First, it's not the games themselves, or the manual or the guide (which also refers to Boom Boom as a character), but the websites, which is already a distant source. Secondly, the American version clearly refers to Boom Boom as a character; even if there are a couple of other sources that conflict with it, there's still clearly one that's referring to it as a character, and the conflicts just further support having separate articles. You can't cherrypick your sources and dismiss everything that doesn't fit with your image. Also, I haven't seen anyone mention 3D World here (heck, I've been browsing the official websites and I don't even see mention of Boom Boom), so I don't think citing that is appropriate. | ||
*"By having two articles that say mostly the same thing and saying that Boom Boom is a character or not is really speculative. Having only one article and saying the ambiguity of Boom Boom is less speculative to me." Here's my biggest gripe: where's the speculation in our votes? Speculation is coming up with answers that have literally no backing, like saying that there's going to be a game based around Waluigi in the future: I don't have any sources and nothing official to provide as proof, it's just something I came up with off the top of my head. However, the opposers are absolutely ''not'' speculating, because, as many people have brought up, there are very clear sources that point to Boom Boom being an individual character. Our arguments aren't baseless, as you seem to be asserting, but entirely based around facts. This is the crux of every proposal: an ambiguous situation is brought up, with various sources that don't seem to agree with each other, so the users interpret what's given to them and come to a conclusion, which is exactly what we've done here, and our conclusion is that it's appropriate for there to be an article about the species and an article about the character. It's entirely acceptable for you to not like that conclusion, and that's fine, because we're not right, and neither are you. Proposals aren't about being right, they're about a community making a decision on what they believe in. Was it wrong for us to [[MarioWiki:Proposals/ | *"By having two articles that say mostly the same thing and saying that Boom Boom is a character or not is really speculative. Having only one article and saying the ambiguity of Boom Boom is less speculative to me." Here's my biggest gripe: where's the speculation in our votes? Speculation is coming up with answers that have literally no backing, like saying that there's going to be a game based around Waluigi in the future: I don't have any sources and nothing official to provide as proof, it's just something I came up with off the top of my head. However, the opposers are absolutely ''not'' speculating, because, as many people have brought up, there are very clear sources that point to Boom Boom being an individual character. Our arguments aren't baseless, as you seem to be asserting, but entirely based around facts. This is the crux of every proposal: an ambiguous situation is brought up, with various sources that don't seem to agree with each other, so the users interpret what's given to them and come to a conclusion, which is exactly what we've done here, and our conclusion is that it's appropriate for there to be an article about the species and an article about the character. It's entirely acceptable for you to not like that conclusion, and that's fine, because we're not right, and neither are you. Proposals aren't about being right, they're about a community making a decision on what they believe in. Was it wrong for us to [[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive_42#Stop_Listing_Sub-Species_on_Generic_Real-World_Species_Pages|stop listing real world animals as subspecies]]? Who knows, but that was the decision that the community came to. Therefore, please don't refer to what we're arguing as speculation. | ||
:::Sorry, just had to get that off of my chest. {{User:Time Turner/sig}} | :::Sorry, just had to get that off of my chest. {{User:Time Turner/sig}} | ||
::::Time Turner, did you look at LinkTheLefty's analysis that claim that various enemy appear at their singular form in the original guide? It's from their I take my argument.--{{User:LudwigVon/sig}} 20:57, 5 August 2015 (EDT) | ::::Time Turner, did you look at LinkTheLefty's analysis that claim that various enemy appear at their singular form in the original guide? It's from their I take my argument.--{{User:LudwigVon/sig}} 20:57, 5 August 2015 (EDT) | ||
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==Re-organised the "Boom Boom" and "Boom Boom (species)" pages== | ==Re-organised the "Boom Boom" and "Boom Boom (species)" pages== | ||
{{ | {{SettledTPP}} | ||
{{ | {{ProposalOutcome|red|failed 2-4}} | ||
Since the old proposal I made at August, I questioned the existence of the character of Boom Boom and study the facts. I believe indeed now the existence of the character of Boom Boom. I do not know if you noticed like me, but one in particular Boom Boom does not have a spikes on its shell and many others have them, I think that Boom Boom character is hiding there. Moreover, one who has no sikes into its shell is identify as a character (Super Mario 3D Land). I propose to re- organize the two articles, one of the character and that of the species to ensure that the character of the page speaks of Boom Boom which has no spikes on its shell and that the Boom Boom species articles talk about those who have spikes on it and about the unique characters of the species. What do you think, users of Super Mario Wiki? | Since the old proposal I made at August, I questioned the existence of the character of Boom Boom and study the facts. I believe indeed now the existence of the character of Boom Boom. I do not know if you noticed like me, but one in particular Boom Boom does not have a spikes on its shell and many others have them, I think that Boom Boom character is hiding there. Moreover, one who has no sikes into its shell is identify as a character (Super Mario 3D Land). I propose to re- organize the two articles, one of the character and that of the species to ensure that the character of the page speaks of Boom Boom which has no spikes on its shell and that the Boom Boom species articles talk about those who have spikes on it and about the unique characters of the species. What do you think, users of Super Mario Wiki? | ||
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**'''ブンブン:''' 腕を回転させて攻撃してくる。透明になって攻撃することもある。 | **'''ブンブン:''' 腕を回転させて攻撃してくる。透明になって攻撃することもある。 | ||
**'''Boom Boom:''' Attacks while revolving [their] arms. There is also a turning-transparent attack. | **'''Boom Boom:''' Attacks while revolving [their] arms. There is also a turning-transparent attack. | ||
**'''プンプン:''' 分身して手裏剣を投げてくる。{{color|hotpink | **'''プンプン:''' 分身して手裏剣を投げてくる。{{color|ピ|hotpink}}ンクの手裏剣が本物。 | ||
**'''Pom Pom:''' Dopplegangers [are made] and shuriken are thrown at [Mario]. Pink shurkien are [of] the real [Pom Pom]. | **'''Pom Pom:''' Dopplegangers [are made] and shuriken are thrown at [Mario]. Pink shurkien are [of] the real [Pom Pom]. | ||
*''Super Mario Memorial Book'' | *''Super Mario Memorial Book'' | ||
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:::Nope, ワン ワン (''Wan Wan'') is the Japanese name of Chain Chomps (it's the equivalent of "bark bark"). It also mentions Boos and Bob-ombs, but no Boom Boom(s). - {{User:Walkazo/sig}} 20:06, 18 November 2015 (EST) | :::Nope, ワン ワン (''Wan Wan'') is the Japanese name of Chain Chomps (it's the equivalent of "bark bark"). It also mentions Boos and Bob-ombs, but no Boom Boom(s). - {{User:Walkazo/sig}} 20:06, 18 November 2015 (EST) | ||
::::Thanks for tthe clarification! I removed that part, so it doesn't get in the way.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 20:43, 18 November 2015 (EST) | ::::Thanks for tthe clarification! I removed that part, so it doesn't get in the way.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 20:43, 18 November 2015 (EST) | ||
