Editing Talk:Boom Boom

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== Redundancy ==
== Redundancy ==


In the appearance section, it says ''Unlike them, he is bald and has no hair.'' which is pretty much saying the same thing twice. I've never known anybody to be bald and have hair (har har). Should I change this, or should somebody else? --[[File:YoshiMP8Artwork.png|35px]] [[User:SuperYoshiBros|<span style=color:blue>Super</span>]][[User talk:SuperYoshiBros|Yoshi]][[Special:Contributions/SuperYoshiBros|Bros]] [[File:YoshiMP8Artwork.png|35px]] 20:51, 6 December 2011 (EST)
In the appearance section, it says ''Unlike them, he is bald and has no hair.'' which is pretty much saying the same thing twice. I've never known anybody to be bald and have hair (har har). Should I change this, or should somebody else? --[[File:YoshiMP8a.PNG|35px]] [[User:SuperYoshiBros|<span style=color:blue>Super</span>]][[User talk:SuperYoshiBros|Yoshi]][[Special:Contributions/SuperYoshiBros|Bros]] [[File:YoshiMP8a.PNG|35px]] 20:51, 6 December 2011 (EST)
:It's obviously redundant, so feel free to change it (as long as you do it properly). {{User:Bop1996/sig}}
:It's obviously redundant, so feel free to change it (as long as you do it properly). {{User:Bop1996/sig}}
:actually, you can be bald and have hair; bald only means no hair on your head (unless you are an animal). So you could be bald but have a beard or a mustache. However, having no hair means, well, no hair, so in this case either bald or has no hair will work.[[User:M&amp;L|M&amp;L Just because you&#39;re in red doesn&#39;t mean you&#39;re strong. Have at you!]] 19:38, 31 January 2012 (EST)
:actually, you can be bald and have hair; bald only means no hair on your head (unless you are an animal). So you could be bald but have a beard or a mustache. However, having no hair means, well, no hair, so in this case either bald or has no hair will work.[[User:M&amp;L|M&amp;L Just because you&#39;re in red doesn&#39;t mean you&#39;re strong. Have at you!]] 19:38, 31 January 2012 (EST)
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==Create a Second Page for the Species==
==Create a Second Page for the Species==
{{Settled TPP}}
{{SettledTPP}}
{{Proposal outcome|green|make a second page 14-9-1}}
<span style="color:green;font-family:Comic Sans MS;font-size:150%">MAKE A SECOND PAGE 14-9-1</span>
As you can see in the above discussion, there's a lot of inconsistency about Boom Boom. Some sources treat Boom Boom as one specific character, while others say Boom Boom is a species. Right now, all we have is this one Boom Boom page which treats him as a singular character, glossing over the instances where more than one Boom Booms appear onscreen, and not discussing the inconsistent game manual descriptions. I feel that the best way to deal with this situation is to '''keep this character page''' and '''make a ''second'' page for the species'''. It would be called {{fake link|Boom Boom (species)}}, like how [[Birdo (species)]], [[Yoshi (species)]] and [[Toad (species)]] distinguish the eponymous characters from their overall species. It would also work the same way as those pages, with the bulk of the information on this main "Boom Boom" page, and only the stuff that's not the one guy getting moved to the other page. This page would then say that Boom Boom is a Boom Boom who specifically appears in some games, however it would also discuss that there is some ambiguity due to writing styles ("he" also being used for enemies ''known'' to be generic) and conflicting information (i.e. the NES ''SMB3'' sounding like he's one guy, while <i>SMASLE</i>'s ''SMB3'' entry makes it sound like there's a group of them), and the fact that original Japanese offers no insight (since there's no pluralizations or pronouns). The species page would also discuss the precarious situation.
 
As you can see in the above discussion, there's a lot of inconsistency about Boom Boom. Some sources treat Boom Boom as one specific character, while others say Boom Boom is a species. Right now, all we have is this one Boom Boom page which treats him as a singular character, glossing over the instances where more than one Boom Booms appear onscreen, and not discussing the inconsistent game manual descriptions. I feel that the best way to deal with this situation is to '''keep this character page''' and '''make a ''second'' page for the species'''. It would be called {{fakelink|Boom Boom (species)}}, like how [[Birdo (species)]], [[Yoshi (species)]] and [[Toad (species)]] distinguish the eponymous characters from their overall species. It would also work the same way as those pages, with the bulk of the information on this main "Boom Boom" page, and only the stuff that's not the one guy getting moved to the other page. This page would then say that Boom Boom is a Boom Boom who specifically appears in some games, however it would also discuss that there is some ambiguity due to writing styles ("he" also being used for enemies ''known'' to be generic) and conflicting information (i.e. the NES ''SMB3'' sounding like he's one guy, while <i>SMASLE</i>'s ''SMB3'' entry makes it sound like there's a group of them), and the fact that original Japanese offers no insight (since there's no pluralizations or pronouns). The species page would also discuss the precarious situation.


Broken down appearance-by-appearance, the situation is as follows:
Broken down appearance-by-appearance, the situation is as follows:
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That isn't necessarily true. Boom Boom can still have character development even if a species of him does exist, unless your telling me that Toad and Yoshi didn't gain any character development just because they're generic. I also have both SM3DL and NSMBU and none of the manuals even mention Boom Boom (in fact, its barely an instruction booklet at all, at least compared to the manuals of past games). My point with Kamek is that guides are known to make mistakes and the fact that you want to go with a source like the NSMBU guide and call Boom Boom a character just because it says so even though in-game it shows multiple Boom Booms. I need to repeat myself again, what is shown in-game overrides written sources like manuals and guides and NSMBU shows multiple Boom Booms in-game, which means it overrides what the guide says. That means that the guide made a mistake in calling him a character just like with Kamek's name. (Walkazo even mentioned the verdict being species for NSMBU because he knows that the species are shown in-game) [[User:Smasher345|Smasher345]] 00:40, 12 January 2013 (EST)
That isn't necessarily true. Boom Boom can still have character development even if a species of him does exist, unless your telling me that Toad and Yoshi didn't gain any character development just because they're generic. I also have both SM3DL and NSMBU and none of the manuals even mention Boom Boom (in fact, its barely an instruction booklet at all, at least compared to the manuals of past games). My point with Kamek is that guides are known to make mistakes and the fact that you want to go with a source like the NSMBU guide and call Boom Boom a character just because it says so even though in-game it shows multiple Boom Booms. I need to repeat myself again, what is shown in-game overrides written sources like manuals and guides and NSMBU shows multiple Boom Booms in-game, which means it overrides what the guide says. That means that the guide made a mistake in calling him a character just like with Kamek's name. (Walkazo even mentioned the verdict being species for NSMBU because he knows that the species are shown in-game) [[User:Smasher345|Smasher345]] 00:40, 12 January 2013 (EST)
:<nowiki>*</nowiki>because ''she'' knows... (because I am a girl, not a boy, for the record). Anyway, it's not so much a case of ''overriding'' or "some manuals are mistaken" ([[MarioWiki:Canonicity|everything is canon]], after all, and [[MarioWiki:Good writing#Reading between the lines|we're not supposed to speculate]] about what writers "meant" to say), but rather, a matter of contradictory information. Many things use the singular to refer to Boom Boom (although seeing as manuals often use the singular to talk about generic enemies, there's some ambiguity here), but at least one source uses the plural, and a couple games show that there is more than one Boom Boom, so it's ''impossible'' for there to ''not'' be more than one Boom Boom. If you say otherwise, you're ignoring valid information (not allowed: everything is canon); if you justify it by saying Boom Boom has "always meant" to be a character only, you're reading between the lines (not allowed); if you say the stuff that show multiple Boom Booms or speak of them in the plural is wrong, you're making a judgment call and weighing one source over another (not allowed - same as for the pro-species side); and trying to say it's one guy with cloning abilities is nothing but speculation (not allowed). You can speculate and be selective about what you believe as much as you like on your own time, ''but you can't do it here''. One story says he's a character, one says there is a species - we can ''and must'' include both stories on the wiki (in fact, ''we already do'', but a full page is much better coverage than a couple lines about the inconsistencies in our current article); fortunately, since the character can be part of the species, they're not mutually exclusive stories and ''nothing'' about Boom Boom-the-character's identity will be lost as a result of a second page being made, so I am really baffled as to why there is so much resistance to this proposal... - {{User:Walkazo/sig}} 01:29, 12 January 2013 (EST)
:<nowiki>*</nowiki>because ''she'' knows... (because I am a girl, not a boy, for the record). Anyway, it's not so much a case of ''overriding'' or "some manuals are mistaken" ([[MarioWiki:Canonicity|everything is canon]], after all, and [[MarioWiki:Good Writing#Reading between the lines|we're not supposed to speculate]] about what writers "meant" to say), but rather, a matter of contradictory information. Many things use the singular to refer to Boom Boom (although seeing as manuals often use the singular to talk about generic enemies, there's some ambiguity here), but at least one source uses the plural, and a couple games show that there is more than one Boom Boom, so it's ''impossible'' for there to ''not'' be more than one Boom Boom. If you say otherwise, you're ignoring valid information (not allowed: everything is canon); if you justify it by saying Boom Boom has "always meant" to be a character only, you're reading between the lines (not allowed); if you say the stuff that show multiple Boom Booms or speak of them in the plural is wrong, you're making a judgment call and weighing one source over another (not allowed - same as for the pro-species side); and trying to say it's one guy with cloning abilities is nothing but speculation (not allowed). You can speculate and be selective about what you believe as much as you like on your own time, ''but you can't do it here''. One story says he's a character, one says there is a species - we can ''and must'' include both stories on the wiki (in fact, ''we already do'', but a full page is much better coverage than a couple lines about the inconsistencies in our current article); fortunately, since the character can be part of the species, they're not mutually exclusive stories and ''nothing'' about Boom Boom-the-character's identity will be lost as a result of a second page being made, so I am really baffled as to why there is so much resistance to this proposal... - {{User:Walkazo/sig}} 01:29, 12 January 2013 (EST)
::Walkazo, as it's been pointed out, manuals and other sources, old or not, tend to offer varying information on enemies, classifying them either as a character or a species. As the only person who has so far voted for the third option, I believe Boom Boom is just another enemy type which is mostly fought as a boss. Going by some of the enemy articles on this Wiki, and checking the old manuals, I don't see any character articles that separate a specific enemy from the rest of its species; Koopa Toopa is a prime example of this. Also, what Boom Boom severely lacks to be a character of its own is distinction from its species, something like Toad (character) has over other members of his species.
::Walkazo, as it's been pointed out, manuals and other sources, old or not, tend to offer varying information on enemies, classifying them either as a character or a species. As the only person who has so far voted for the third option, I believe Boom Boom is just another enemy type which is mostly fought as a boss. Going by some of the enemy articles on this Wiki, and checking the old manuals, I don't see any character articles that separate a specific enemy from the rest of its species; Koopa Toopa is a prime example of this. Also, what Boom Boom severely lacks to be a character of its own is distinction from its species, something like Toad (character) has over other members of his species.


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== Merge "Boom Boom" page to "Boom Boom (species)" and rename it "Boom Boom" ==
== Merge "Boom Boom" page to "Boom Boom (species)" and rename it "Boom Boom" ==
{{Settled TPP}}
{{SettledTPP}}
{{Proposal outcome|gray|deleted by user request}}
<span style="color:grey;font-family:Comic Sans MS;font-size:150%">DELETED BY USER REQUEST</span>
 
It was hard to me to make a opinion with this recently, but I come to a fact that I think their is not actually a "character" that is name "Boom Boom", my reason is because in mostly all the games that Boom Boom appear in, Boom Boom don't appear has one character. In Super Mario Bros. 3, I really don't think that Boom Boom is a character because of different powers that Boom Boom have in all the fortress, some even fly and some don't. In New Super Mario Bros. U, It make the most cense that Boom Boom is really a species, because they appear in the top of 6 towers and each of them have different powers that Kamek give to them. I look to some other characters like Koopa Troopa and Shy Guy and their is not really a specific characters that is name Koopa Troopa and Shy Guy (except the one from Mario Party Advance). So the way I would do this I will delete this article because Boom Boom is too much a ambiguous species for the moment to make a article about "the" Boom Boom and make like the Koopa Troopa and Shy Guy a article about the species in general. So, what do you think about it?
It was hard to me to make a opinion with this recently, but I come to a fact that I think their is not actually a "character" that is name "Boom Boom", my reason is because in mostly all the games that Boom Boom appear in, Boom Boom don't appear has one character. In Super Mario Bros. 3, I really don't think that Boom Boom is a character because of different powers that Boom Boom have in all the fortress, some even fly and some don't. In New Super Mario Bros. U, It make the most cense that Boom Boom is really a species, because they appear in the top of 6 towers and each of them have different powers that Kamek give to them. I look to some other characters like Koopa Troopa and Shy Guy and their is not really a specific characters that is name Koopa Troopa and Shy Guy (except the one from Mario Party Advance). So the way I would do this I will delete this article because Boom Boom is too much a ambiguous species for the moment to make a article about "the" Boom Boom and make like the Koopa Troopa and Shy Guy a article about the species in general. So, what do you think about it?


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::Plenty of recurring bosses have different powers from fight to fight, even within single games. Otherwise battles get repetitive, boring and too easy. - {{User:Walkazo/sig}} 20:28, 30 July 2015 (EDT)
::Plenty of recurring bosses have different powers from fight to fight, even within single games. Otherwise battles get repetitive, boring and too easy. - {{User:Walkazo/sig}} 20:28, 30 July 2015 (EDT)
:::Not, if it get power. Look at Boom Boom from the Acorn Plains's tower in NSMBU, Boom Boom has the same abilities from all fortress from SMB3, but it get power from Kamek in all others towers, that's not it's own power, it get the power. A another good point to this is Bowser himself, in it's simple form in the SMB series, the only thing he do it's spit fireball and jump, but own new abilities from Bowser Jr. in NSMB, Kamek in NSMBWii and NSMBU and the Koopalings in NSMB2. This is a point to observed. The Koopalings in NSMBWii, each of them have the same abilities from SMB3, but get power from Kamek in their castle boss fight.--{{User:LudwigVon/sig}}  23:20, 30 July 2015 (EDT)
:::Not, if it get power. Look at Boom Boom from the Acorn Plains's tower in NSMBU, Boom Boom has the same abilities from all fortress from SMB3, but it get power from Kamek in all others towers, that's not it's own power, it get the power. A another good point to this is Bowser himself, in it's simple form in the SMB series, the only thing he do it's spit fireball and jump, but own new abilities from Bowser Jr. in NSMB, Kamek in NSMBWii and NSMBU and the Koopalings in NSMB2. This is a point to observed. The Koopalings in NSMBWii, each of them have the same abilities from SMB3, but get power from Kamek in their castle boss fight.--{{User:LudwigVon/sig}}  23:20, 30 July 2015 (EDT)
<s>There was a proposal that won not to long ago about creating a page for the species. Why in the world would we want to merge Boom Boom with that? Usually, characters have their own articles and they don't get merged into their spicies page. And to rename the spicies page to Boom Boom... Species shouldn't get renamed to names that don't include "spicies", even if you merge Boom Boom with it. </s>I don't even know who Boom Boom is, but I still don't think this is a good idea. {{User:PowerKamek/sig}} 23:45, 30 July 2015 (EDT)
<s>There was a proposal that won not to long ago about creating a page for the species. Why in the world would we want to merge Boom Boom with that? Usually, characters have their own articles and they don't get merged into their spicies page. And to rename the spicies page to Boom Boom... Species shouldn't get renamed to names that don't include "spicies", even if you merge Boom Boom with it. </s>I don't even know who Boom Boom is, but I still don't think this is a good idea. [[File:PowerKamekSignature.png|150px|link=User:PowerKamek]]
([[User talk:PowerKamek|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/PowerKamek|contribs]])
<span style="color:red;font-family:monospace">Kamek Power!</span> 23:45, 30 July 2015 (EDT)
:PowerKamek, please elaborate your position, you say per Walkazo, but here in the comments you say you don't even know who Boom Boom is (so my arguments tell that their is not really a Boom Boom character). Why do you really think that's not a good idea, maybe you can check LinkTheLefty's analyst. Thanks!--{{User:LudwigVon/sig}}  13:10, 31 July 2015 (EDT)  
:PowerKamek, please elaborate your position, you say per Walkazo, but here in the comments you say you don't even know who Boom Boom is (so my arguments tell that their is not really a Boom Boom character). Why do you really think that's not a good idea, maybe you can check LinkTheLefty's analyst. Thanks!--{{User:LudwigVon/sig}}  13:10, 31 July 2015 (EDT)  


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Time Turner, for my part, I think the ambiguity of Boom Boom if there is or not a character from the name of the species is one of the things less than satisfactory that a encyclopedia should rely on. If we relied on the bios of other languages such as Europe which implies that there are many Boom Boom is still good, Nintendo of America can both make mistakes. Too much reliance on one region (America) may induce more errors on the Super Mario Wiki and for my part, I would like a lot more that this Wiki that I care a lot have the least possible error, because of old guides from NES and SNES. I also believe that LinkTheLefty made a very good analysis of the problems from Boom Boom and that those who voted before LinkTheLefty has put a position on this proposal should read this analysis. So, making a unique article about the species in general would be less ambiguous than two articles that make this really confusing.--{{User:LudwigVon/sig}}  13:36, 31 July 2015 (EDT)
Time Turner, for my part, I think the ambiguity of Boom Boom if there is or not a character from the name of the species is one of the things less than satisfactory that a encyclopedia should rely on. If we relied on the bios of other languages ​​such as Europe which implies that there are many Boom Boom is still good, Nintendo of America can both make mistakes. Too much reliance on one region (America) may induce more errors on the Super Mario Wiki and for my part, I would like a lot more that this Wiki that I care a lot have the least possible error, because of old guides from NES and SNES. I also believe that LinkTheLefty made ​​a very good analysis of the problems from Boom Boom and that those who voted before LinkTheLefty has put a position on this proposal should read this analysis. So, making a unique article about the species in general would be less ambiguous than two articles that make this really confusing.--{{User:LudwigVon/sig}}  13:36, 31 July 2015 (EDT)


::Honestly I would do the opposite. It would be more correct to leave the page of the character and to delete the page of the species.--[[User:Sonic98|Sonic98]] ([[User talk:Sonic98|talk]]) 13:59, 31 July 2015 (EDT)
::Honestly I would do the opposite. It would be more correct to leave the page of the character and to delete the page of the species.--[[User:Sonic98|Sonic98]] ([[User talk:Sonic98|talk]]) 13:59, 31 July 2015 (EDT)
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With the amount of ambiguity surrounding this subject, I think it's counterintuitive to try and separate the content into two different articles. [[User:Aokage|Aokage]] ([[User talk:Aokage|talk]]) 09:20, 5 August 2015 (EDT)
With the amount of ambiguity surrounding this subject, I think it's counterintuitive to try and separate the content into two different articles. [[User:Aokage|Aokage]] ([[User talk:Aokage|talk]]) 09:20, 5 August 2015 (EDT)


:Agreed. For every little nugget that ''implies but doesn't state'' Boom Boom is/was a character (ie. ''SMB3'' NES manual [among other enemies], ''3D Land'' American site), there are contemporary existing versions of the same material that outright contradicts it (eg. ''SMB3'' guide/re-releases, ''3D Land'' European site). The situation with Boom Boom is certainly far from clear-cut, unlike every other set of articles split between a species and its character. Since it borderline infringes on [[MarioWiki:Once and only once|this]], there's no good reason not to simply scoop up the pertinent information that's been scattered across three (counting Pom Pom) articles and conveniently condense it in one coherent section. On another note, opposers "Per Walkazo" should really clarify their own positions since she earlier more or less opted out of the ensuing discussion. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 14:07, 5 August 2015 (EDT)
:Agreed. For every little nugget that ''implies but doesn't state'' Boom Boom is/was a character (ie. ''SMB3'' NES manual [among other enemies], ''3D Land'' American site), there are contemporary existing versions of the same material that outright contradicts it (eg. ''SMB3'' guide/re-releases, ''3D Land'' European site). The situation with Boom Boom is certainly far from clear-cut, unlike every other set of articles split between a species and its character. Since it borderline infringes on [[MarioWiki:Once and Only Once|this]], there's no good reason not to simply scoop up the pertinent information that's been scattered across three (counting Pom Pom) articles and conveniently condense it in one coherent section. On another note, opposers "Per Walkazo" should really clarify their own positions since she earlier more or less opted out of the ensuing discussion. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 14:07, 5 August 2015 (EDT)
::So it's here we now come to the proposal rule #5:''Users who feel that certain votes were cast in bad faith or which truly have no merit can address the votes in the Comments section. Users can ask a voter to clarify their position, point out mistakes or flaws in their arguments, or call for the outright removal of the vote if it lacks sufficient reasoning. Users may not remove or alter the content of anyone else's votes.'' Since, some users don't come back here to read the comments, should I go to opposer's talk page to ask them to clarify their vote?--{{User:LudwigVon/sig}}  14:45, 5 August 2015 (EDT)
::So it's here we now come to the proposal rule #5:''Users who feel that certain votes were cast in bad faith or which truly have no merit can address the votes in the Comments section. Users can ask a voter to clarify their position, point out mistakes or flaws in their arguments, or call for the outright removal of the vote if it lacks sufficient reasoning. Users may not remove or alter the content of anyone else's votes.'' Since, some users don't come back here to read the comments, should I go to opposer's talk page to ask them to clarify their vote?--{{User:LudwigVon/sig}}  14:45, 5 August 2015 (EDT)
:::I've mentioned that elsewhere, but I didn't want to press it further. Basically, Walkazo expressed a fundamental dislike of my examination of her two-years+old writing but unfortunately couldn't bother reading the whole thing or refuting any points due to some current timing / TL;DR issues, though it doesn't sit right with me that approximately half the opposition inadvertently follows that example at the moment. Someone correct me if I'm incorrect since I don't really know the nuance or expectation of that rule, but votes stamped before the full breakdown ''may'' be safe even though they themselves rely heavily on the original argument that went mostly unchallenged. On the other hand, I've felt the need to notify others through their talk pages whenever significant developments occurred in my own proposals at least once in the past. It might be fine if you do that as a courtesy, but I'm personally wary of citing Rule 5 to question or withdraw votes just ''yet'' unless others confirm that this case would be an appropriate use of it. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 16:05, 5 August 2015 (EDT)
:::I've mentioned that elsewhere, but I didn't want to press it further. Basically, Walkazo expressed a fundamental dislike of my examination of her two-years+old writing but unfortunately couldn't bother reading the whole thing or refuting any points due to some current timing / TL;DR issues, though it doesn't sit right with me that approximately half the opposition inadvertently follows that example at the moment. Someone correct me if I'm incorrect since I don't really know the nuance or expectation of that rule, but votes stamped before the full breakdown ''may'' be safe even though they themselves rely heavily on the original argument that went mostly unchallenged. On the other hand, I've felt the need to notify others through their talk pages whenever significant developments occurred in my own proposals at least once in the past. It might be fine if you do that as a courtesy, but I'm personally wary of citing Rule 5 to question or withdraw votes just ''yet'' unless others confirm that this case would be an appropriate use of it. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 16:05, 5 August 2015 (EDT)
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==Re-organised the "Boom Boom" and "Boom Boom (species)" pages==
==Re-organised the "Boom Boom" and "Boom Boom (species)" pages==
{{Settled TPP}}
{{TPP}}
{{Proposal outcome|red|failed 2-4}}
Since the old proposal I made at August, I questioned the existence of the character of Boom Boom and study the facts. I believe indeed now the existence of the character of Boom Boom. I do not know if you noticed like me, but one in particular Boom Boom does not have a spikes on its shell and many others have them, I think that Boom Boom character is hiding there. Moreover, one who has no sikes into its shell is identify as a character (Super Mario 3D Land). I propose to re- organize the two articles, one of the character and that of the species to ensure that the character of the page speaks of Boom Boom which has no spikes on its shell and that the Boom Boom species articles talk about those who have spikes on it and about the unique characters of the species. What do you think, users of Super Mario Wiki?
Since the old proposal I made at August, I questioned the existence of the character of Boom Boom and study the facts. I believe indeed now the existence of the character of Boom Boom. I do not know if you noticed like me, but one in particular Boom Boom does not have a spikes on its shell and many others have them, I think that Boom Boom character is hiding there. Moreover, one who has no sikes into its shell is identify as a character (Super Mario 3D Land). I propose to re- organize the two articles, one of the character and that of the species to ensure that the character of the page speaks of Boom Boom which has no spikes on its shell and that the Boom Boom species articles talk about those who have spikes on it and about the unique characters of the species. What do you think, users of Super Mario Wiki?


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===Support===
===Support===
#{{User|LudwigVon}} Per my proposal. Finally make a link between the character and the species.
#{{User|LudwigVon}} Per my proposal. Finally make a link between the character and the species.
#{{User|Cdaveedski}} Certain things look almost throughly debunked or at least highly debated/contested as minor early-90s flipflopping wordchoice or misleading or confused locallzation, but the older arguments don't seem to properly factor 3D Land/World in which he is suddenly paired as equal to Pom Pom, who is considered very definitely her own character according to both NOA & Wiki translation over just NOE/PAL (selectively I feel but w/e). Maybe it should waited until olympic games, but I still think re-organizing like the proposal offers ''for'' ''now'' a safe middle-ground & a better-case scenario ''overall'' w/a much clearer dividing point defined instead of relying on generally vague contradictory semanticky stuff..besides TOAD's first appearence here isn't SMB1 despite Nintendo-official insistance, so listing this one recurring guy debuting from 3D Land rather than SMB3 is hardly out of place. (Also to me the shell spikes don't resize in SMB3, it just hunches over like a hedgehog & makes them visible since it always faces the screen....compare art-work & Bowser's turning sprites to see what I mean.)


===Oppose===
===Oppose===
#{{User|SmokedChili}} We also have the PAL sources that state there are multiple Boom Booms, meaning multiple spikeless Boom Boooms exist and leaving things ambiguous. It's also argued that one Boom Boom in ''Mario 3'' is a singular Boom Boom, who has spikes, meaning he could be both spiked and spikeless. Ultimately, I'm playing it safe with this one.
#{{User|SmokedChili}} We also have the PAL sources that state there are multiple Boom Booms, meaning multiple spikeless Boom Boooms exist and leaving things ambiguous. It's also argued that one Boom Boom in ''Mario 3'' is a singular Boom Boom, who has spikes, meaning he could be both spiked and spikeless. Ultimately, I'm playing it safe with this one.
#{{User|Walkazo}} - Thought about it some more, and while the spikeless shell stuff ''does'' line up well with the modern appearances, it's better to stick with the case-by-case approach, rather than hitch our ride to one rigid criteria. Better to be able to take ''all'' the info into account, certainly including the shell, but not limited to it. Plus, for all we know, Nintendo might arbitrarily throw out the current shell pattern at any time anyway.
#{{User|Walkazo}} - Thought about it some more, and while the spikeless shell stuff ''does'' line up well with the modern appearances, it's better to stick with the case-by-case approach, rather than hitch our ride to one rigid criteria. Better to be able to take ''all'' the info into account, certainly including the shell, but not limited to it. Plus, for all we know, Nintendo might arbitrarily throw out the current shell pattern at any time anyway.
#{{User|Marioguy}} Per Walkazo.
#[[User:Marioguy|Marioguy]] ([[User talk:Marioguy|talk]]) Per Walkazo.
#{{User|Bazooka Mario}} I think this split is all arbitrary and speculative, and it has a smidge of fanon applied to it. If there were official bios on Boom-Boom that's along the lines of "Unlike his brethren, Boom-Boom is shellless" it would make sense, but we don't; the bios treat the two types as one and the same as far as I've seen, so we shouldn't reorganize based on this.


===Comments===
===Comments===
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Super Mario Bros. 3<br />
Super Mario Bros. 3<br />
コース 中 に 登場 する 敵 キャラクター 。 テレサ や ボム へい 、 ワン ワン など は 、 この 作品 で 初めて登場 し て いる 。<br />
[http://www.mariowiki.com/File:ESMB_SMB3_Enemies.png scan]<br />


ブンブン<br />
ブンブン<br />
Line 574: Line 577:
**'''ブンブン:''' 腕を回転させて攻撃してくる。透明になって攻撃することもある。
**'''ブンブン:''' 腕を回転させて攻撃してくる。透明になって攻撃することもある。
**'''Boom Boom:''' Attacks while revolving [their] arms. There is also a turning-transparent attack.
**'''Boom Boom:''' Attacks while revolving [their] arms. There is also a turning-transparent attack.
**'''プンプン:''' 分身して手裏剣を投げてくる。{{color|hotpink|ピ}}ンクの手裏剣が本物。
**'''プンプン:''' 分身して手裏剣を投げてくる。{{color|ピ|hotpink}}ンクの手裏剣が本物。
**'''Pom Pom:''' Dopplegangers [are made] and shuriken are thrown at [Mario]. Pink shurkien are [of] the real [Pom Pom].
**'''Pom Pom:''' Dopplegangers [are made] and shuriken are thrown at [Mario]. Pink shurkien are [of] the real [Pom Pom].
*''Super Mario Memorial Book''
*''Super Mario Memorial Book''
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:Ok, for the moment I corrected my transcription too so you don't have to check out every time what is the correct one! I will try to see if something else is said about these characters in the books, but as you might have understood by now, they don't talk much about the characters, and unfortunately Boom Boom is not in the two pages of the Encyclopedia that have general "bios" of the characters.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 18:05, 18 November 2015 (EST)
:Ok, for the moment I corrected my transcription too so you don't have to check out every time what is the correct one! I will try to see if something else is said about these characters in the books, but as you might have understood by now, they don't talk much about the characters, and unfortunately Boom Boom is not in the two pages of the Encyclopedia that have general "bios" of the characters.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 18:05, 18 November 2015 (EST)
::I added the introduction to the enemies of SMB3 in the ESMB, there is a mention of "ワン ワン", could he be Boom Boom?--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 18:05, 18 November 2015 (EST)
::I added the introduction to the enemies of SMB3 in the ESMB, there is a mention of "ワン ワン", could he be Boom Boom?--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 18:05, 18 November 2015 (EST)
:::Nope, ワン ワン (''Wan Wan'') is the Japanese name of Chain Chomps (it's the equivalent of "bark bark"). It also mentions Boos and Bob-ombs, but no Boom Boom(s). - {{User:Walkazo/sig}} 20:06, 18 November 2015 (EST)
::::Thanks for tthe clarification! I removed that part, so it doesn't get in the way.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 20:43, 18 November 2015 (EST)
== Species and character at once ==
I've been thinking recently. I feel that certain entities that are both characters and species with only minor consistency in the character aspect (like Boom Boom here as well as Birdo, and possibly even Toad and Yoshi) could be easily merged with the species article, for the simple reason that it is up to ''Nintendo's discretion'' whether something is a character and/or a species in a particular game. Birdo was hardly a "character" in SMB2 and Boom Boom was hardly a "character" in SMB3, yet they are still treated as distinct from the species by this wiki, which is sorta baffling given the color variation (mainly of the former, though Boom Boom had a bit of that in the NES SMB3 likely due to W2 Fortress using the cave palette). Some articles, notably [[Wiggler]] and [[Big Boo]] naturally flow between describing a species and describing an individual entity, so I figure why can't this? Is it because of Pom Pom? That doesn't really work either, since in SM64DS the generic Big Boo "character" (or three, ambiguously) was present alongside a specific Big Boo, King Boo, who literally shared a model. There really is no reason to keep these separated, as ultimately, it creates a disjointed mess when all the info can just as easily be on one page. Boom Boom is only a character when Nintendo (or a specific regional branch thereof) wants him to be, and likewise for the species aspect. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 02:21, December 18, 2019 (EST)
:I’ve been supporting this view for long, I think it is rooted in Japanese language, where ''Boom Boom'' and ''a Boom Boom'' are written in the very same way. While this might only seem a grammar peculiarity, I’ve seen many examples in the Mario universe where character and species simply aren’t distinct. Granted, it’s something that escapes the logic of our Western culture, where we have strict separation between species and individuals part of said species, but it’s becoming so common (see Dorrie and Draggadon) that I think a revision of this peculiarity will eventually be needed. Starting from Boom Boom makes sense, as that duality existed since the beginning, with ''New Super Mario Bros. U'' first and then ''Super Mario Run'' eventually confirming Boom Boom to be a species, something that found its reconfirmation in the ''Mario & Sonic'' games. We might use this work to explore ways to properly create pages for these species/characters.—[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 06:27, December 18, 2019 (EST)
== Voice actor? ==
Has it ever been established who Boom Boom (along with Pom Pom's) voice actor is? Some sources like imdb say its [[Lani Minella]], but at the same time, I notice that Sho Murata is credited as a voice in games that Boom Boom speaks (like Mario & Sonic Rio 2016, Mario Tennis Aces, Mario & Sonic Tokyo 2020). Any idea? [[User:Prpro&#61;03|PrPro03]] ([[User talk:Prpro&#61;03|talk]]) 12:01, October 31, 2021 (EDT)
== Appearances ==
He also appeared The Adventures Of Super Mario Bros. 3. [[User:I&#39;manumber1|I&#39;manumber1]] ([[User talk:I&#39;manumber1|talk]]) 18:05, November 21, 2021 (EST)
== Derivative of Bowser's species? ==
{{talk}}
Since this now also functions as a species page and we now also have a page for [[Koopa (Bowser's species)]], I was wondering if we should go ahead and treat this as a variant because of the sheer multitude of obvious cues linking them together. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 15:47, September 9, 2024 (EDT)

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