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| Bobby shows up as a ghost when you take a new photo in Shogun Studios after his death [[User:Pokemon|Pokemon]] ([[User talk:Pokemon|talk]]) 12:47, July 29, 2020 (EDT) | | Bobby shows up as a ghost when you take a new photo in Shogun Studios after his death [[User:Pokemon|Pokemon]] ([[User talk:Pokemon|talk]]) 12:47, July 29, 2020 (EDT) |
| :That still doesn't mean he is an undead character. Like we've been saying to you, the categories are only valid if the character started out undead or deceased which Bobby doesn't. {{User:Keyblade Master/sig}} | | :That still doesn't mean he is an undead character. Like we've been saying to you, the categories are only valid if the character started out undead or deceased which Bobby doesn't. {{User:Keyblade Master/sig}} |
| ::I don't know what you mean by that<br />After all, he exploded and you saw his SPIRIT<br/>Olivia also cried and she said "We only have our memories" [[User:Pokemon|Pokemon]] ([[User talk:Pokemon|talk]]) 16:33, July 29, 2020 (EDT) | | ::I don't know what you mean by that<br />After all, he exploded and you saw his SPIRIT<br />Do you want to say that it must be said explicitly that he is dead? (which Nintendo hasn't done with many ghosts yet) [[User:Pokemon|Pokemon]] ([[User talk:Pokemon|talk]]) 16:33, July 29, 2020 (EDT) |
| :::Pokemon's right. If they ''start out'' a so-called "undead character," then unless specifically stated we don't know if they were alive to begin with, which is what ''determines'' whether something is truly "undead." In his case, he dies and later his spirit showed up, which ''by definition'' makes him undead. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 17:12, July 29, 2020 (EDT)
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| ::::I agree with Doc, the fact that, for whatever reason, we don't classify characters as deceased/undead if they aren't that way for their entire appearance is frankly downright stupid, not to mention incredibly confusing for readers and editors alike as this has shown. (And also false - three of the characters currently in the "Deceased Characters" category were initially shown alive) How does dying halfway through a game make you any "less dead" than a character that died before the game's events? It also goes completely against what the category says it's for - "A list of all the characters that have died or have been heavily implied to be dead at some point". It says nothing about "only characters who have always appeared dead". We either need to fix how the Deceased Characters category is currently handled, or if we're not going to do that remove it entirely, because in its current state it's not helping anyone. I also think we should be a little less strict with overlap between Deceased and Undead for characters like Bobby or Wrinkly Kong. I get that the idea is to prevent every ghost in the franchise from ending up in the category, but for characters who we know used to be living beings, it doesn't make sense to omit them from the category just because they came back as a ghost. --{{User:Waluigi Time/sig}} 17:31, July 29, 2020 (EDT)
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| [[User:Alex95]], [[User:Bazooka Mario]]
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| I propose the following definitions in order to finally fix the spongy regulations on examples and criteria
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| {| class="wikitable"
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| !
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| !Alive
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| !Deceased
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| !Undead
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| !Deceased & Undead
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| |-
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| |rowspan="2"|Definition
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| |colspan="4" align=center |post credit situation<br /><small>(to avoid problems in determining Sammer's Kingdom, Kristi, Luvbi ect.)</small>
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| |-
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| #Alive
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| #Unknown
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| #just "exploding" and/or "defeated" bosses
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| #died
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| #have been heavily implied to be dead <small>(like crying or mention him in past-form)</small>
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| #undead entity (not ghost!) but (maybe) not "alive"
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| |ghosts and other undead entities
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| |clearly lived once and died ''AND'' returned as ghost or other undead entity
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| |-
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| |Examples
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| #Mario
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| #Dimentio, father of Count Black, Elder Princess Shroob
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| #most bosses
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| #rulers of all Floro Sapiens, Marco Polo's Plumbers
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| #Olly and Olivia
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| #Kolorado's father, Prince Mushroomkhamen
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| |Boo, Ghosts, Mummies, Dry Bones
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| |Bobby, Merlumina, Krow, Wrinkly Kong
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| |}
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| [[User:Pokemon|Pokemon]] ([[User talk:Pokemon|talk]]) 18:06, July 29, 2020 (EDT)
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| You could set up a proposal on [[MarioWiki:Proposals]] if you really want to go through with this. {{User:Keyblade Master/sig}}
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| :I made [[MarioWiki:Proposals#definitions of undead and deceased]] [[User:Pokemon|Pokemon]] ([[User talk:Pokemon|talk]]) 02:28, July 30, 2020 (EDT)
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| There doesn't need to be a proposal for including both categories. You ''can'' have overlaps. Some [[:Category:Deceased Characters|deceased characters]] can appear undead (e.g. Bob-omb and Wrinkly), some do not (e.g. King Croacus); simple. Wrinkly has had both categories for years now. What the category page is saying is that we shouldn't treat ''all'' undead characters (like the ones that start out undead by default) as "deceased". The sentence just needs to be clarified a bit more.
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| If there's something that could use discussion, it would be how the "Deceased Characters" category alone can be broadened (e.g. to include Olly and Olivia or not), but the overlap part is clear-cut. {{User:Mario jc/sig}} 03:03, July 30, 2020 (EDT)
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| :I totally agree with you, nevertheless the regulation apparently exists "The category is mainly supposed to be used for characters who are already dead"<br />It is also important to me when the death is implied and when it is not (even it's obvious), so that it is fixed and no longer discussed about each individual case, let alone an edit war has to be carried out [[User:Pokemon|Pokemon]] ([[User talk:Pokemon|talk]]) 03:37, July 30, 2020 (EDT)
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