Editing Talk:Blurp (Yoshi's Story)

Any proof these aren't just redesigned Cheep Cheeps, a la [[Flopsy Fish]]? [[User:Binarystep|Binarystep]] ([[User talk:Binarystep|talk]]) 00:25, 24 April 2015 (EDT)
:Any proof that they ''are'' redesigned Cheep Cheeps? {{User:Time Turner/sig}}
::I think it can be concluded within reason that they are meant to be Cheep Cheeps, just given another N64 touch-up on their design like the "Bubs" of ''Super Mario 64''. Supposing that they were named after or mistaken for the ''Super Mario World'' Blurps, the localization misread the Japanese for a very simple reason - namely, Blurp is 「ブクブク」 and Cheep Cheep is 「プクプク」. The basic small enemy is essentially still a Cheep Cheep, and we've got one source naming them ''Pukupuku'' / Cheep Cheep over ''none'' calling the small ones ''Buku Buku'' / Blurp, so that coupled with the fact that the species is a series staple makes for an easy merge. The question is what to do with the remaining two big counterparts: the English source we have appears to collectively call them Blurps, and appears to name the red one, aptly enough, Red Blurp. The Red Blurp is already strongly likened to Boss Bass, so I think they can be considered the same thing, with this article just covering the otherwise unnamed blue variant and leaving a note along the lines of, "In ''Yoshi's Story'', the term "Blurp" can also refer to Boss Bass, which were renamed Red Blurp." (Why were multiple separate enemies placed in this article, anyway?) [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 17:36, 5 May 2015 (EDT)

== Merge Blurp (Yoshi's Story) with Cheep Cheep ==
{{SettledTPP}}
{{ProposalOutcome|green|merge 8-2}}
They act exactly the same as Cheep Cheeps and have the same Japanese name, and look pretty much the same (with minor differences from their "normal" depiction like other ''Yoshi's Story'' enemies). As for why they're called Blurps, that's likely just a translator mistaking プクプク (''pukupuku'') for ブクブク (''bukubuku''). Note that this will only affect regular-sized Blurps, not Red Blurps and "Blue Blurps".

'''Proposer''': {{User|Binarystep}}<br>
'''Deadline''': June 21, 2015, 23:59 GMT

===Support===
#{{User|Binarystep}} Per proposal
#{{User|LinkTheLefty}} Per proposal (it should be noted that from our cited sources, "Blurp" only refers to the overgrown ones anyway).
#{{User|ShyGuy8}} Per proposal. I think they are about the same.
#{{User|SmokedChili}} Per all.
#{{User|Baby Luigi}} Per LinkTheLefty in the comments
#{{User|Lumastar}} Per all and previous proposals like this.
#{{User|Bazooka Mario}} Sounds good.
#{{User|Pyro Guy}} Per all.

===Oppose===
#{{User|Tails777}} The fact that these guys have spurned off bigger versions and to a lesser extend having an official English name, I feel they have enough to stand alone. On that note, perhaps it'd be a better idea to split off the two bigger Blurps since, aside from being bigger, they hold different traits from their smaller counterparts (Red one eating Yoshi and the blue one spitting water to slow Yoshis down).
#{{User|TheHelper100}} Per Tails777.

===Comments===
Now, hold on... To be clear, you're referring to the small fish merging with Cheep Cheep and not the giant Red Blurp and "Blue Blurp" variations? [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 17:11, 7 June 2015 (EDT)
:Yeah, the others are too different to consider normal Cheep Cheeps. [[User:Binarystep|Binarystep]] ([[User talk:Binarystep|talk]]) 17:13, 7 June 2015 (EDT)
@Tails777 The English name is likely a mistake, and the sub-species argument seems flawed to me (it's like saying Flopsy Fish aren't Cheep Cheeps because they branched off into Piscatory Petes and the unnamed spiked variation from Touch & Go). [[User:Binarystep|Binarystep]] ([[User talk:Binarystep|talk]]) 20:54, 7 June 2015 (EDT)
:Can you back up that it's a translation error? What if it wasn't an error? What if it was intentional? I feel we can't be certain that it was a translation mistake so that's why I'm opposing, cause I feel we're acting more on a mistake we can't prove. (Though I can easily be wrong cause I'm not an expert on translating) {{User:Tails777/sig}}
::@Tails - I've noted this in the area above the proposal. Diacritical marks are confused for each other more often than you'd think, and the Japanese name for Cheep Cheep and the SMW Blurp literally just has the ''dakuten'' [ﾟ/ﾞ] flipped for the other. It's pretty obvious that the localization named it after the latter due to this common mistake. As for what to do with the remaining Red Blurp and "Blue Blurp" - our sources indicate that the English "Blurp" has only referred to the larger variants anyway, so having them share the same article is more bearable than [http://www.mariowiki.com/index.php?title=Blurp_%28Yoshi%27s_Story%29&diff=688481&oldid=651935 spontaneously incorporating the smaller fish,] but that can be decided afterwards. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 21:40, 7 June 2015 (EDT)
::@TheHelper - Again, it's simply '''not''' a good idea to keep the smaller ones in the Blurp article if we cannot properly attribute the name to them. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 13:26, 13 June 2015 (EDT)

== Merge Red Blurp with Boss Bass or split Red Blurp and Blue Blurp  ==
{{SettledTPP}}
{{ProposalOutcome|green|split red blurp and blue blurp 1-10-1}}
Now that the above proposal for Blurp's smaller counterpart has passed, the issue remains how best to present the two Blurp varieties. I don't believe having two enemy types in the same article is the optimal solution, so here's what can be done about it:

'''1. Merge Red Blurp with Boss Bass.''' Functionally, they were basically the same enemy as in SMB3, both being overgrown Cheep Cheep near the water's surface that exhibit the same gulping whole maneuvre. The only difference is that the original fish aggressively swims back and forth and leaps whenever the player is in range or almost in reach, whereas this version is more casual and slow in its swimming motion sort of like ''Super Mario 64'' (''DS'') and leaps every so often, but it'd be more convoluted to keep every enemy type separate because of mere behavioral/programming differences. "Blue Blurp" would still remain in this article, but its conjectural name would be removed since there would be no need to differentiate from Red Blurp in the same space. Only a note stating that they are both called "Blurp" in ''Yoshi's Story'' is necessary.

'''2. Split Red Blurp and Blue Blurp.''' They have their own articles since they are different enough (the other acting more like a hungry giant Spray Fish), and retain their unique names in said articles. However, since Blue Blurp is an unofficial name, we would have to apply it to full <nowiki>{{conjecture}}</nowiki> rather than the <nowiki>{{partconjecture}}</nowiki> tag as it is the entire subject of one of the articles.

'''3. Keep as Blurp (''Yoshi's Story'').''' Do nothing and leave as-is, which may be justified as the Blurp colors are already grouped together in the game.

'''Proposer''': {{User|LinkTheLefty}}<br>
'''Deadline''': July 11, 2015, 23:59 GMT

===Merge Red Blurp with Boss Bass===
#{{User|LinkTheLefty}} This method minimizes the <nowiki>{{conjecture}}</nowiki> and <nowiki>{{partconjecture}}</nowiki> tags of the alternatives; therefore, it is my preference.

===Split Red Blurp and Blue Blurp===
#{{User|Tails777}} They are pretty much different versions of an enemy and they have their own looks and different attacks.
#{{User|TheHelper1000}} Per Tails777.
#{{User|Bazooka Mario}} Assuming Red Blurp is the same as Boss Bass sounds like, well, an assumption, and I'd rather not make that kind of assumption until more evidence makes it clearer.
#{{User|Marshal Dan Troop}} Per all.
#{{User|Lumastar}} Per all. Merging them with either enemy they are similar to doesn't make as much sense as merging the smallest Blurp with Cheep Cheep.
#{{User|Pyro Guy}} Per Tails777.
#{{User|Binarystep}} Per all, I feel we need a bit more evidence Red Blurps are intended to be Boss Bass besides behavior.
#{{User|KingKoopa21}} Per Tails777
#{{User|The Super Mario Super User}} Per Tails777 and Binarystep
#{{User|UltraMario3000}} Per all.

===Keep as Blurp (''Yoshi's Story'')===
#{{User|PowerKamek}} I think it should be kept as Blurp in Yoshi's Story.
===Comments===
@Bazooka Mario: We reached the conclusion above that Blurp is most likely mistranslation of Cheep Cheep due to a character misinterpretation in their Japanese names (and the smaller ones are never named in-game or on the website). ''Yoshi's Story'' has a Japanese option in International copies, and if you look at the Japanese text, you'll see that the larger Blurps are also plainly referred to as Cheep Cheep during the [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6T8m06dDTwA&t=6m04s page clear narration] (sort of like how 4-3 refers to Piranha Plants as a group despite no standard Piranha Plants appearing anywhere). If you check out the Message Block [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aG3cjOcbQpk&t=6m30s here,] it describes them as 「おおきな　プクプク」 (''ōkina Pukupuku''), or "Big/Giant Cheep Cheep". Since the less hungry Big Cheep Cheep weren't introduced yet, they're probably most parallel to ''Kyodai Pukupuku'' ("Giant Cheep Cheep"), or Boss Bass/Big Bertha. At any rate, I'd say Boss Bass and the Red Blurp in particular had more in common than Boss Bass and Bubba did before ''Super Mario 64 DS'', and splitting the information that way overall makes the article naming more clean (at least, in terms of ''conjectural'' clean-up). [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 00:29, 28 June 2015 (EDT)
:I do agree that Blurp is a mistranslation of a Cheep Cheep (and how it's used so nonchalantly in Mario Golf 64 when you hit the ball off-course suggests that it was intended to be a Cheep-Cheep all along). I do believe, however, that there isn't as direct evidence when it comes to drawing similarities between this Blurp and Boss Bass, so we're just making the assumption that just because it's big and eats things and it is a Cheep Cheep makes it a Boss Bass. I'd say it's more of a similarity rather than "they're the same thing", so I'm just opting for the safer route this time. {{User:Bazooka Mario/sig}} 01:08, 28 June 2015 (EDT)
@@ Line 4: / Line 4: @@
 == Merge Blurp (Yoshi's Story) with Cheep Cheep ==
-{{Settled TPP}}
+{{SettledTPP}}
-{{Proposal outcome|green|merge 8-2}}
+{{ProposalOutcome|green|merge 8-2}}
 They act exactly the same as Cheep Cheeps and have the same Japanese name, and look pretty much the same (with minor differences from their "normal" depiction like other ''Yoshi's Story'' enemies). As for why they're called Blurps, that's likely just a translator mistaking プクプク (''pukupuku'') for ブクブク (''bukubuku''). Note that this will only affect regular-sized Blurps, not Red Blurps and "Blue Blurps".
@@ Line 34: / Line 34: @@
 == Merge Red Blurp with Boss Bass or split Red Blurp and Blue Blurp  ==
-{{Settled TPP}}
+{{SettledTPP}}
-{{Proposal outcome|green|split red blurp and blue blurp 1-10-1}}
+{{ProposalOutcome|green|split red blurp and blue blurp 1-10-1}}
 Now that the above proposal for Blurp's smaller counterpart has passed, the issue remains how best to present the two Blurp varieties. I don't believe having two enemy types in the same article is the optimal solution, so here's what can be done about it:
@@ Line 67: / Line 67: @@
 @Bazooka Mario: We reached the conclusion above that Blurp is most likely mistranslation of Cheep Cheep due to a character misinterpretation in their Japanese names (and the smaller ones are never named in-game or on the website). ''Yoshi's Story'' has a Japanese option in International copies, and if you look at the Japanese text, you'll see that the larger Blurps are also plainly referred to as Cheep Cheep during the [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6T8m06dDTwA&t=6m04s page clear narration] (sort of like how 4-3 refers to Piranha Plants as a group despite no standard Piranha Plants appearing anywhere). If you check out the Message Block [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aG3cjOcbQpk&t=6m30s here,] it describes them as 「おおきな　プクプク」 (''ōkina Pukupuku''), or "Big/Giant Cheep Cheep". Since the less hungry Big Cheep Cheep weren't introduced yet, they're probably most parallel to ''Kyodai Pukupuku'' ("Giant Cheep Cheep"), or Boss Bass/Big Bertha. At any rate, I'd say Boss Bass and the Red Blurp in particular had more in common than Boss Bass and Bubba did before ''Super Mario 64 DS'', and splitting the information that way overall makes the article naming more clean (at least, in terms of ''conjectural'' clean-up). [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 00:29, 28 June 2015 (EDT)
 :I do agree that Blurp is a mistranslation of a Cheep Cheep (and how it's used so nonchalantly in Mario Golf 64 when you hit the ball off-course suggests that it was intended to be a Cheep-Cheep all along). I do believe, however, that there isn't as direct evidence when it comes to drawing similarities between this Blurp and Boss Bass, so we're just making the assumption that just because it's big and eats things and it is a Cheep Cheep makes it a Boss Bass. I'd say it's more of a similarity rather than "they're the same thing", so I'm just opting for the safer route this time. {{User:Bazooka Mario/sig}} 01:08, 28 June 2015 (EDT)
-== Re-merge [[Red Blurp]] and [[Blue Blurp]] back into this page ==
-{{Settled TPP}}
-{{Proposal outcome|passed|5-0|merge}}
-I've spoken with LinkTheLefty about it, and he agrees that re-merging these is the best option.<br>
-Now, just the facts:<br>
-These are recolors of each other, both in sprites and artwork. They each get [https://www.spriters-resource.com/resources/sheets/34/36351.png a few] [https://www.spriters-resource.com/resources/sheets/22/23862.png unique poses], but all in all, this is a red-green Troopa situation.<br>
-They are a giant Cheep Cheep counterpart, akin to [[Boss Bass]]. Unlike Boss Bass, they are in design a true large counterpart, as they use the exact same base for their pre-rendered sprites as the normal Cheep Cheep, more akin to [[Big Cheep Cheep]].<br>
-They are known in Japan simply by Cheep Cheep's normal name, ''Pukupuku''. The ''Shogakukan'' gives them different names (generically translatable to "red Cheep" and "blue Cheep,") but lists them under [[Media:Yoshi Story Shogakukan P6.jpg|the exact same blurb]]; the only "two" enemies it does this with.<br>
-Red Blurp acts like a slow, higher-jumping Boss Bass, and Blue Blurp acts like a more jerkily-spitting [[Spray Fish]] combined with a [[Cheep Chomp]].<br>
-Anyways, the current situation is inconvenient all around in regards to relation with the similar (and ''possibly'' the same) [[Boss Bass]] and [[Cheep Chomp]], and ultimately, these are still just recolors.
-I may have missed some points, but I'm still dealing with the aches of having my wisdom teeth pulled.
-'''Proposer''': {{User|Doc von Schmeltwick}}<br>
-'''Deadline''': January 18, 2019, 23:59 (GMT)
-===Support===
-#{{User|Doc von Schmeltwick}} Let's merge these piscine pests and be done with it.
-#{{User|FanOfYoshi}} This is especially a color/behavior difference, so. And we'll bring back this page soon. Per how we handle with colors.
-#{{User|Toadette the Achiever}} Seeing as how we haven't split the fast and slow [[Bramball]]s either...
-#{{User|TheFlameChomp}} Per all.
-#{{User|LinkTheLefty}} I agree with re-merging since they are treated as color variations and for a clearer reason to differentiate Red Blurp from Boss Bass, as well as to fit the (unknown color) subject of [[Mario Golf (Nintendo 64)#Mario.27s Star Holes|Mario's Star Hole]].
-===Oppose===
-===Comments===
-I'm not sure what to choose. Can this page be restored at least? --{{User:FanOfYoshi/sig}} 01:43, 5 January 2019 (EST)
-:Of course it can, it hasn't been gone very long. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 02:04, 5 January 2019 (EST)
-::Asked to Mario jc since he's the one who deleted it. No response yet. --{{User:FanOfYoshi/sig}} 01:52, 6 January 2019 (EST)
-:::Experience tells me that yes it can. Most of what can't be restored was due to the server being wiped ages ago. Long before this. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 02:20, 6 January 2019 (EST)
-::::It's possible. --{{User:FanOfYoshi/sig}} 10:39, 6 January 2019 (EST)
-:It was only just deleted in August last year. I can do it once the proposal passes. {{User:Mario jc/sig}} 19:38, 6 January 2019 (EST)
-::This is likely just one enemy splitted as two in the manual but share one description altogether. And yet, the [http://www.suppermariobroth.com/image/40932172296 Kodansha] manga still lists them altogether. --{{User:FanOfYoshi/sig}} 10:29, 8 January 2019 (EST)
-:::Blessed image. Love how [[Power Bee|Happiness Butterfly]] is a fairy, and everything about that [[Fuzzy Wiggler]]. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 13:40, 8 January 2019 (EST)
-::::Actually, it does the same for Piranha Plant, and its relative, Piranha Sprout and Piranha Pest. [[media:Yoshi_Story_Shogakukan_P5.jpg|Look]]! --{{User:FanOfYoshi/sig}} 12:56, 12 January 2019 (EST)
-:::::And their artwork isn't edited from each other, and they get long convoluted names. Pest and Sprout are built from the same graphics, admittedly. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 15:13, 12 January 2019 (EST)
-::::::Piranha Sprout has feet as opposed to a short stem as well. --{{User:FanOfYoshi/sig}} 06:35, 17 January 2019 (EST)
-:::::::I know what i will say is off topic (though it is mentioned in the proposal), regarding Boss Bass and Cheep Chomp, i don't recomand making another proposal about it. The Super Mario Pia didn't list SM64DS, MKDS and YIDS because it doesn't list remakes, third party games, and Yoshi series games. I'm pretty sure that the encyclopedia still calls the Boss Bass "Kyodai Pukupuku". --{{User:FanOfYoshi/sig}} 09:07, 18 January 2019 (EST)
-::::::::We know all that, but the door should still remain open if and when new info ever comes about. Regarding Piranha Plants, they also only appear in one level; Kodansha lists them separately. Though it is interesting that the description calls shrinked Yoshi "Mini Yoshi" (ミニヨッシー), if an article is made of that form.  [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 09:43, 18 January 2019 (EST)