Editing Talk:Black Chest Demon
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==Richard Simmons Mentioned in [[Nintendo Power]] Guide== | ==Richard Simmons Mentioned in [[Nintendo Power]] Guide== | ||
{{user|7feetunder}}, any reason you want to omit the Richard Simmons trivia piece? Am I missing a bit of {{SITENAME}} policy? The information is from an official source, which is why I included it. --{{User:Wildgoosespeeder/sig}} 11:44, December 20, 2021 (EST) | {{user|7feetunder}}, any reason you want to omit the Richard Simmons trivia piece? Am I missing a bit of {{SITENAME}} policy? The information is from an official source, which is why I included it. --{{User:Wildgoosespeeder/sig}} 11:44, December 20, 2021 (EST) | ||
:I simply don't think a random simile from a strategy guide that was included purely for humor value is so noteworthy that we have to bring it up in the article. The guide was just making a joke about how the Hooktail Castle chest gives Mario the ability to "get skinny", since Simmons was a fitness instructor. It doesn't mean the black chest thing actually has anything to do with the guy. As far as actual policy goes, I don't think we have anything pertaining to this issue specifically, but [[MarioWiki: | :I simply don't think a random simile from a strategy guide that was included purely for humor value is so noteworthy that we have to bring it up in the article. The guide was just making a joke about how the Hooktail Castle chest gives Mario the ability to "get skinny", since Simmons was a fitness instructor. It doesn't mean the black chest thing actually has anything to do with the guy. As far as actual policy goes, I don't think we have anything pertaining to this issue specifically, but [[MarioWiki:Trivia]] discourages the bloating of trivia sections in general, and this article already has four of them. {{User:7feetunder/sig}} 19:34, December 20, 2021 (EST) | ||
::I kind of interpreted the statement as a part joke and part description about the personality of what the four heroes became. I never meant for it to be a direct relation to the real life person. I don't think adding one extra bullet point in the trivia section contributes to the bloat. I can understand adding inferences and conclusions to the trivia section can bloat things, kind of like grasping at straws, but this is just straight up word from an official source that can be an interesting read. If you want to cut down on the current trivia section, maybe two or three of these bullet points could either be moved to [[List of implied characters]] or integrate them into the history section of the article. --{{User:Wildgoosespeeder/sig}} 09:16, December 21, 2021 (EST) | ::I kind of interpreted the statement as a part joke and part description about the personality of what the four heroes became. I never meant for it to be a direct relation to the real life person. I don't think adding one extra bullet point in the trivia section contributes to the bloat. I can understand adding inferences and conclusions to the trivia section can bloat things, kind of like grasping at straws, but this is just straight up word from an official source that can be an interesting read. If you want to cut down on the current trivia section, maybe two or three of these bullet points could either be moved to [[List of implied characters]] or integrate them into the history section of the article. --{{User:Wildgoosespeeder/sig}} 09:16, December 21, 2021 (EST) | ||
:::It ultimately doesn't matter if the trivia currently has too many bullet points or not, a throwaway gag from a strategy guide that was clearly never meant to be taken seriously is not trivia-worthy to begin with. The Richard Simmons connection is extremely tenuous, given that the [[Paper Mode]] ability doesn't actually have anything to do with fitness or weight loss. The writer obviously just added it for flavor. Given the context of the line, I cannot imagine how it can be interpreted as anything other than a one-off joke, let alone "description about the personality of what the four heroes became". It has nothing to do with personality, lore, or anything. The reference was made was purely because the Paper Mode ability involved making Mario "skinny", even though it's just Mario turning his paper body sideways. {{User:7feetunder/sig}} 21:34, December 21, 2021 (EST) | :::It ultimately doesn't matter if the trivia currently has too many bullet points or not, a throwaway gag from a strategy guide that was clearly never meant to be taken seriously is not trivia-worthy to begin with. The Richard Simmons connection is extremely tenuous, given that the [[Paper Mode]] ability doesn't actually have anything to do with fitness or weight loss. The writer obviously just added it for flavor. Given the context of the line, I cannot imagine how it can be interpreted as anything other than a one-off joke, let alone "description about the personality of what the four heroes became". It has nothing to do with personality, lore, or anything. The reference was made was purely because the Paper Mode ability involved making Mario "skinny", even though it's just Mario turning his paper body sideways. {{User:7feetunder/sig}} 21:34, December 21, 2021 (EST) | ||
==What to do with this article== | ==What to do with this article== | ||
{{ | {{TPP}} | ||
Basically, "Black Chest Demon" is a poor conjectural title for this article. These aren't demons, they're four heroes who saved the world 1,000 years prior to the game's events and got cursed by the Shadow Queen. They are never called "demons" at all, only the Shadow Queen herself is. There have been a few discussions regarding the name and state of this article but all of them have fizzled out with no conclusion. So let's fix that already. | Basically, "Black Chest Demon" is a poor conjectural title for this article. These aren't demons, they're four heroes who saved the world 1,000 years prior to the game's events and got cursed by the Shadow Queen. They are never called "demons" at all, only the Shadow Queen herself is. There have been a few discussions regarding the name and state of this article but all of them have fizzled out with no conclusion. So let's fix that already. | ||
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#{{User|Dine2017}} Per proposal and Hewer. It would be strange to categorize the black chests as characters since they don't speak. | #{{User|Dine2017}} Per proposal and Hewer. It would be strange to categorize the black chests as characters since they don't speak. | ||
#{{User|ThePowerPlayer}} After thinking about it, even though Glowsquid has a fair point and the name "four heroes" doesn't exactly reflect their in-game role, it ''is'' a non-conjectural name, and it makes more sense to keep the characters split from the objects, because that allows the character articles to touch on their history as told by Grifty before the events of the game. | #{{User|ThePowerPlayer}} After thinking about it, even though Glowsquid has a fair point and the name "four heroes" doesn't exactly reflect their in-game role, it ''is'' a non-conjectural name, and it makes more sense to keep the characters split from the objects, because that allows the character articles to touch on their history as told by Grifty before the events of the game. | ||
====Merge with black chest==== | ====Merge with black chest==== | ||
#{{User|7feetunder}} Second choice. | #{{User|7feetunder}} Second choice. | ||
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#{{User|ThePowerPlayer}} Second choice. | #{{User|ThePowerPlayer}} Second choice. | ||
#{{User|Ray Trace}} Have to agree that having those be separate is redundant as their existence is intrinsically linked to each other (and really the heroes don't really have a physical appearance anyway) plus the connotation of them being heroes cursing the player just works better under a black chest article. | #{{User|Ray Trace}} Have to agree that having those be separate is redundant as their existence is intrinsically linked to each other (and really the heroes don't really have a physical appearance anyway) plus the connotation of them being heroes cursing the player just works better under a black chest article. | ||
#{{User|Mario}} Most players in the gameplay context encounter these as black chest demons which are completely tied to black chests, and the wiki would describe them as such in most cases, so probably better idea to categorize it as such. | #{{User|Mario}} Most players in the gameplay context encounter these as black chest demons which are completely tied to black chests, and the wiki would describe them as such in most cases, so probably better idea to categorize it as such. {{User:Mario/sig}} 18:27, May 18, 2023 (EDT) | ||
====Rename to a different conjectural name==== | ====Rename to a different conjectural name==== | ||
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#...their actual name of "four heroes" is REALLY non-specific, too; it could refer to ''any'' set of four heroes. For instance: Mario, Luigi, Peach and Toad in ''Super Mario Bros. 2''; or Donkey Kong, Diddy Kong, Dixie Kong and Cranky Kong in ''Donkey Kong Country: Tropical Freeze''. If their English name was something along the lines of their Japanese or Spanish names, that translate to "Rogueport's Millenary Four Heroes", or something simple like "The Four Heroes of Rogueport", then that would be sufficiently clear enough, but no, it's ''just'' "four heroes". | #...their actual name of "four heroes" is REALLY non-specific, too; it could refer to ''any'' set of four heroes. For instance: Mario, Luigi, Peach and Toad in ''Super Mario Bros. 2''; or Donkey Kong, Diddy Kong, Dixie Kong and Cranky Kong in ''Donkey Kong Country: Tropical Freeze''. If their English name was something along the lines of their Japanese or Spanish names, that translate to "Rogueport's Millenary Four Heroes", or something simple like "The Four Heroes of Rogueport", then that would be sufficiently clear enough, but no, it's ''just'' "four heroes". | ||
But they are also important enough to have their own separate article, instead of being relegated to the black chest article, so merging with that page is also out, I feel. And moving to another conjectural name, or keeping the conjectural name they already have, is also weird when they ''do'' have an actual name. I... literally don't know what to do here. {{User:Arend/sig}} 06:25, May 19, 2023 (EDT) | But they are also important enough to have their own separate article, instead of being relegated to the black chest article, so merging with that page is also out, I feel. And moving to another conjectural name, or keeping the conjectural name they already have, is also weird when they ''do'' have an actual name. I... literally don't know what to do here. {{User:Arend/sig}} 06:25, May 19, 2023 (EDT) | ||
