| Latest revision |
Your text |
| Line 1: |
Line 1: |
| == Move ''[[Super Princess Peach]]'' information to [[Chomp]] == | | == Move ''[[Super Princess Peach]]'' information to [[Chomp]] == |
| | {{talk}} |
| So the large Chain Chomps from SPP are called Big Chain Chomps, even though they have no chain. Chain Chomps that are oversized and have no chain are known as Chomps. This is nothing more than an error and if you look at its japanese name you can see that [[Chomp Shark]] had the exact same error. {{User:VOIDTHIS/sig}} 13:38, 17 July 2018 (CEST) | | So the large Chain Chomps from SPP are called Big Chain Chomps, even though they have no chain. Chain Chomps that are oversized and have no chain are known as Chomps. This is nothing more than an error and if you look at its japanese name you can see that [[Chomp Shark]] had the exact same error. {{User:VOIDTHIS/sig}} 13:38, 17 July 2018 (CEST) |
| :A similar discussion is over [[Talk:Chomp Shark#Big Chain Chomp|here]], but in regards to the Chomp / Chain Chomp difference - there are instances where "Chain Chomps" are known as "Chomps" (ex. ''Super Mario RPG'', ''Paper Mario'') and instances where "Chomps" are known as "Chain Chomps" (ex. ''Super Mario Maker''), and some languages such as Japanese don't change between the two, so it's possible that the distinction isn't as tight as we've made it out to be. Size is also something that differs depending on the game; for example, the Chain Chomps of ''Super Mario 64'' and ''Super Mario Sunshine'' are fairly large, yet the respective games consider them to be normal Chain Chomps. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 09:09, 17 July 2018 (EDT) | | :A similar discussion is over [[Talk:Chomp Shark#Big Chain Chomp|here]], but in regards to the Chomp / Chain Chomp difference - there are instances where "Chain Chomps" are known as "Chomps" (ex. ''Super Mario RPG'', ''Paper Mario'') and instances where "Chomps" are known as "Chain Chomps" (ex. ''Super Mario Maker''), and some languages such as Japanese don't change between the two, so it's possible that the distinction isn't as tight as we've made it out to be. Size is also something that differs depending on the game; for example, the Chain Chomps of ''Super Mario 64'' and ''Super Mario Sunshine'' are fairly large, yet the respective games consider them to be normal Chain Chomps. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 09:09, 17 July 2018 (EDT) |
| Line 9: |
Line 10: |
| == Do what the above section header indicates and merge to [[Chomp Shark]] == | | == Do what the above section header indicates and merge to [[Chomp Shark]] == |
|
| |
|
| {{Settled TPP}} | | {{TPP}} |
| {{Proposal outcome|passed|5-0|merge}}
| |
|
| |
|
| See above. "Biggu" in the context of this franchise is almost exclusively used for large enemies and bosses in the ''Yoshi'' games. And while it doesn't act really like Chomp Shark, it is worth noting that [[Blindfold Boo]] also doesn't act like its SMW2 originator; in fact, that acts like Chomp Shark! Anyways, aside from JP name, these have similar nonstandard eye position, are of the chainless "Chomp" variety, and their position in the glossary does not indicate that in considers it a "new" enemy (those being [[Walruss]] and the [[Starfish]]). It's certainly not the same thing as what it's merged with now, at any rate. | | See above. "Biggu" in the context of this franchise is almost exclusively used for large enemies and bosses in the ''Yoshi'' games. And while it doesn't act really like Chomp Shark, it is worth noting that [[Blindfold Boo]] also doesn't act like its SMW2 originator; in fact, that acts like Chomp Shark! Anyways, aside from JP name, these have similar nonstandard eye position, are of the chainless "Chomp" variety, and their position in the glossary does not indicate that in considers it a "new" enemy (those being [[Walruss]] and the [[Starfish]]). It's certainly not the same thing as what it's merged with now, at any rate. |
| Line 22: |
Line 22: |
| #{{User|Niiue}} Per proposal. | | #{{User|Niiue}} Per proposal. |
| #{{User|LinkTheLefty}} It's only logical to distinguish the big varieties this way given that Chain Chomps will remain split based on chain status. Per this and all previous support. | | #{{User|LinkTheLefty}} It's only logical to distinguish the big varieties this way given that Chain Chomps will remain split based on chain status. Per this and all previous support. |
| #{{User|Doomhiker}} Per all.
| |
|
| |
|
| ===Oppose=== | | ===Oppose=== |
|
| |
|
| ===Comments=== | | ===Comments=== |
|
| |
| == Merge Chomp Shark with this article ==
| |
| {{Settled TPP}}
| |
| {{Proposal outcome|passed|7-1-0|Merge Chomp Shark entirely}}
| |
| I was going to wait until the [[Talk:Big Chomp and Little Chomp#Merge this article with the Mario Party 3 section of the Chain Chomp article|Big Chomp and Little Chomp proposal]] was over before doing this as two of its options involve these articles, but that proposal is currently stagnating and doesn't actually have a clear consensus, so I'm doing this now <s>because I'm impatient</s> to help push it forward. The Japanese names of Chomp Shark and Big Chain Chomp are ''Biggu Wanwan'' and ''Deka Wanwan'' respectively, which generally mean the same thing - "Big Chain Chomp". Chomp Shark has a separate article because of its unique behavior in the ''Yoshi's Island'' series and non-generic English name (English ''YI'' flowering up the names being par for the course), but then the above proposal got the ''Super Princess Peach'' one added to the article solely because it had the same Japanese name, despite not sharing its unique behavior or English name. (Note that ''SPP'''s English translation kinda sucks; see "[[Petey Piranha#Super Princess Peach|Boss P. Plant]]", "[[Volcano Lotus#Super Princess Peach|Volcano Plant]]", and "[[Spike Top#Super Princess Peach|Mecha-Spike Top]]".) So if Chomp Shark isn't defined by its behavior, then what does define it? The answer: nothing. They're both giant Chomps, with the only distinguishing factor with how we're handling them now being the Japanese name, which is inconsistent with how we handle other giant enemy variants, whose names tend to vary even in Japanese. Therefore, I don't see a reason to keep them split.
| |
|
| |
| An alternate solution would be to simply undo the above proposal and move the ''SPP'' section back here, defining Chomp Shark by it's ''YI'' behavior. Keep in mind that ''YI'' Piranha Plants (along with other examples I'm not thinking of right away), also have different behavior from other series, and they're not split.
| |
|
| |
| '''Proposer''': {{User|7feetunder}}<br>
| |
| '''Deadline''': September 1, 2022, 23:59 GMT
| |
|
| |
| ====Merge Chomp Shark entirely====
| |
| #{{User|7feetunder}} Preferred option.
| |
| #{{User|LinkTheLefty}} I've always felt like this is mainly a holdover of the archaic "Chain Chomp=/=Chomp" distinction. And while I'm aware that the ''Yoshi's Island'' series usually pegs "''Biggu''" as something more transformative than the usual giant enemies, I think that's the keyword - "transformative". Chomp Shark is just a regular enemy instead of one of Kamek's various transformed bosses, which is where I think most if not all of the distinction lays. And as I've mentioned [[Talk:Chomp Shark#Big Chain Chomp|here]], it seems they were [[tcrf:Proto:Super Mario World 2: Yoshi's Island/ys romX 0#World 3|originally]] to be known as「きょだいワンワン」 (''Kyodai Wanwan'', Giant Chain Chomp), which incidentally made it to at least [https://archive.org/details/nintendo-magazine-system-uk-43-april-1996/page/66/mode/2up one] preview and is still used to refer to Incoming Chomps [[Watch Out Below!#Names in other languages|here]]. That would've fit it much more in line with the typical "''Kyodai''/''Deka''" terms. I'm against the alternative because I still agree with the above proposal's assessment that it's not a "new" enemy.
| |
| #{{User|Arend}} [[Talk:Big Chomp and Little Chomp#Comments|I had already stated before]] that I find Chomp Shark not quite distinct enough to be its own article - maybe if it got a Japanese name that isn't just "Big Chain Chomp" or anything related to size, as we have [[Big Goomba]] and Giant Goomba share an article, which also tend to have differing Japanese names like Kyodai Kuribo and Deka Kuribo.
| |
| #{{User|ThePowerPlayer}} While Chomp Sharks are indeed relatively distinct from Big Chain Chomps in their ''Yoshi's Island'' series appearances, after examining the [[Big Chain Chomp]] article in detail, they have more similarities than I initially realized. Firstly, the vast majority of Big Chain Chomps cannot be directly harmed, just like Chomp Sharks (to my knowledge, the player can only directly defeat Big Chain Chomps in the ''Super Mario Maker'' games and in ''[[Super Mario Odyssey]]'', by [[Capture|capturing]] a [[T-Rex]]). Secondly, most Big Chain Chomps are enormous, especially in ''[[Paper Mario: Sticker Star]]'', ''[[Mario & Luigi: Paper Jam]]'', and [[Princess (Paper Mario: Color Splash)|Princess]] from ''[[Paper Mario: Color Splash]]''.
| |
| #{{User|Swallow}} Per all
| |
| #{{User|TheFlameChomp}} Per all.
| |
| #{{User|Archivist Toadette}} I was never a fan of the "Chain Chomp ≠ Chomp" argument in the first place. Per all.
| |
|
| |
| ====Move the ''SPP'' section of Chomp Shark back here====
| |
| #{{User|7feetunder}} Second choice.
| |
|
| |
| ====Do nothing====
| |
|
| |
| ====Comments====
| |
| This may be irrelevant, but if we do end up merging Chomp Shark to the Big Chain Chomp article, I think that information on the Chain Chomps in [[Jungle Hut]] from ''[[Yoshi's Story]]'' should also be moved to Big Chain Chomp. These Chain Chomps are mentioned in the [[Chomp Shark#Trivia|Trivia section]] of the Chomp Shark article as being very similar (like Chomp Sharks, they are enormous and cannot be defeated). On the main Chain Chomp article, [[Chain Chomp#Yoshi's Story|their section]] lists them as being called "Chomp Chomps" by ''Nintendo 64 Game Secrets, 1999 Edition: Prima's Official Strategy Guide''. This name is similar to "Giant Chomp-Chomp", one of the alternate names used for Chomp Shark. Admittedly, the ''Yoshi's Story'' Nintendo Player's Guide refers to them as "three mammoth Chomps", without any explicit reference to the name "Big Chain Chomp", but considering that these Chain Chomps are both giant and chainless like Chomp Sharks, I still feel that they would fit best under the merged Big Chain Chomp article. --[[User:ThePowerPlayer|ThePowerPlayer]] ([[User talk:ThePowerPlayer|talk]]) 21:38, August 18, 2022 (EDT)
| |
| :I'd say that might be a separate issue. What about the Chain Chomp from ''Super Mario 64''? It's also referred to as a "Big Chomp" in some material, yet it's the only size that shows up, so there's no frame of reference within the game. Unless you say that the Chomp icon from the Melon Races counts, but that's just a HUD element. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 10:10, August 20, 2022 (EDT)
| |
|
| |
| I do wanna say before this ends, I do generally want to keep the Yoshi ''biggu'' entities separate from the ''Kyodai/Dai/Deka/Mega/''etc ones, for the simple reason that otherwise [[Naval Piranha]], [[Hookbill the Koopa]], and [[Knot-Wing the Koopa]] would be considered interchangeable with [[Big Piranha Plant]], [[Big Koopa Troopa]], and [[Big Koopa Paratroopa]] respectively, and ''Ultimate''{{'}}s Piranha list keeps Naval Piranha and Big Piranha Plant split. ''That being said'', as LTL pointed out, the ''biggu'' unique aspect is ''usually'' transformational, which is reversed in the case of the Chain Chomps where there was none until the ''Dai/Deka'' one in NSMBW. However, YNI choosing to keep the ''biggu'' name can be seen as proof they are still intended as separate, though it could just as easily be seen as series legacy naming. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 13:54, September 1, 2022 (EDT)
| |
| :Series legacy naming seems like the more plausible explanation to me. {{User:7feetunder/sig}} 14:34, September 1, 2022 (EDT)
| |
