Editing Talk:Behemoth

==Split [[Behemoth King]] from Behemoth==
{{SettledTPP}}
{{ProposalOutcome|passed|8-4|split}}
Can I please ask why these two are together? They have different names, different looks, different moves, and different stats. My point being they're different people, so again I ask; why are they together? This might be a little short, but it's because the fact that they're different entities is a simple reason that I really don't need to elaborate.

'''Proposer''': {{User|Reversinator}}<br>
'''Deadline''': March 13, 2011, 23:59 GMT 

===Split===
#{{User|Reversinator}} It's my proposal.
#{{User|Bowser's luma}} They are totally different.
#{{User|DKPetey99}} Per Reversinator comments. I agree!
#{{User|Loxo}} Per all.
#{{User|Bop1996}} It's not like in the Ridley article where they are the same person and it only matters in a different series. If this gets passed, stats for each should be put on the separate articles.
#{{User|Ultrahammer5365}} I agree. Different bosses that belong in different articles.
#{{User|Reddragon19k}} If this article gets a split, then it's going to be a per all! So, there you go. Per all!
#{{User|Magikrazy51}} Other than size, power and a crown, there's no difference from Whomp King and other Whomps and ''they'' have different articles. And don't even get me started on Chill Bully and Chief Chilly. Per Reversinator and Bop1996.

===Don't Split===
#{{User|SWFlash}} Changes: Color, power, and nothing else. Let's split Star Rod Bowser power-up from Bowser? (I will be mad if there will be a proposal for Star Road Bowser…)
#{{User|LeftyGreenMario}} King Behemoth is mostly a mere palette swap of Behemoth. Really, the differences between the two are too minor to warrant a split between the two. In fact, I wish to see all "powered-up" enemies to be merged with their original forms.
#{{User|BabyLuigiOnFire}} Per MS&G in the comments. I don't know what more we can add other than, "More vitality, different attack pattern, and different skin" from not taking any info from [[Behemoth]].
#{{User|Mario4Ever}} Per LGM.

===Comments===
@DKPetey: Behemoth is already of a great size, and Behemoth King could be expanded. Also, you ignored the fact that they're different entities. --[[User:Reversinator|Reversinator]] 16:40, 27 February 2011 (EST)

@SWFlash: How much of my proposal did you read? '''They are different people''', not just an upgrade like [[Fire Mario]]. --[[User:Reversinator|Reversinator]] 08:40, 1 March 2011 (EST)

*I went up against Behemoth King, and it clearly used the exact same moves as the normal Behemoth.  The only main difference between the two are their body colors, and their resilience to attacks; Behemoth King can take more attacks than Behemoth. {{User:M&amp;SG/sig}} 16:59, 1 March 2011 (EST)

Reversinator: They might be different creatures, but the only differences these two share are the color, vitality, and the slightly more moves. These mere differences should not merit a split in this article, honestly. If you played the game, you can see that Behemoth King is not much different than Behemoth. I never played the Final Fantasy games, so the boss sure felt like a simple, "powered-up" version of the original. {{User:LeftyGreenMario/sig}} 23:59, 3 March 2011 (EST)

I'm mixed on this. On one, they're just the same with different colors and that Behemoth King's attacks are stronger but on the other side, Dino Piranha & Fire Dino Piranha are different but the fire one is a different color and can spit out fireballs and they both have a separate article. --[[User:Gameboyz829|Gameboyz829]] 09:08, 7 March 2011 (EST)
:Well, Fiery Dino Piranha behaves differently than Dino Piranha, and has some additional attacks and abilities.  Behemoth King doesn't have any moves that Behemoth can't use. {{User:M&amp;SG/sig}} 07:32, 8 March 2011 (EST)

@SW Flash: Chief Chilly and Chill Bully, Whomp King and Whomp, Big Bob-omb and Bob-omb (that one's a stretch, but oh well), the differences between these characters are minimal just like this page. Are you saying you want Chief Chilly/Chill Bully merges? {{User|Magikrazy51}}

:Your logic is flawed. You're comparing a generic enemy and a boss. Behemoth and Behemoth King are both bosses. Also, I assume that most of the supporters here (including the proposer) did not even play the game. {{User:LeftyGreenMario/sig}} 20:30, 9 March 2011 (EST)


::Okay, forget the Whomp and Bob-omb, but Chill Bully was a boss as was Chief Chilly. Keeping Behemoth King to Behemoth would be like keeping Chief Chilly to Chill Bully (a boss[sure, Chill Bully was a generic enemy in the beta version of Super Mario 64, but not in the final]). {{User|Magikrazy51}}

::Both function very differently, and Chill Bully is not a boss. He's just a large, random enemy you have to defeat to get a star. The boss music doesn't even play when you fight him. Besides, Chief Chilly does not appear in Super Mario 64, and defeating him unlocks a character in Super Mario 64 DS. Behemoth and Behemoth King function the same, appear in the same fashion, and appear in the same game. It's just that one is a different colored one with more HP. {{User:LeftyGreenMario/sig}} 20:44, 10 March 2011 (EST)

:::You can tell a lot from categories. From Chill Bully's categories, you can tell it's from Super Mario 64, it's a character, enemy, '''Boss''' and ice creature. Not a boss, huh? {{User|Magikrazy51}}
::::Why is Chill Bully listed as BOTH an enemy and a boss? I thought we agreed that they are different things. And from simply reading that article, it certainly doesn't act like a boss. I'm removing the boss category. I get my evidence from the substance of the article and what I played rather than rely on the categories. {{User:BabyLuigiOnFire/sig}}
:::::The heck with Chill Bully, you guys win! However, can you guys, I mean girls, explain bosses like Gobblegut and Fire Gobblegut? {{User|Magikrazy51}}
::::::Fiery Gobblegut is covered in fire and it leaves fire blasts behind when it digs through the ground. He also spits lava out when he is low on HP, unlike Gobblegut, who simply moves faster. These bosses have more changes than Behemoth and Behemoth King. {{User:BabyLuigiOnFire/sig}}
:::::::Last chance, but what about Really Gnawty and Very Gnawty from DKC? {{User|Magikrazy51}}
I have played this game before and I have played the Behemoth one. I saw a video for the Behemoth King. There isn't much difference besides color and Behemoth King's attacks are a bit more stronger than Behemoth's. I'm kinda leaning toward the Don't Split side.--[[User:Gameboyz829|Gameboyz829]] 18:35, 10 March 2011 (EST)

:Exactly. People need to play the game or see the videos before they can jump right to conclusions. {{User:LeftyGreenMario/sig}} 20:44, 10 March 2011 (EST)

==Ummm==
Now that the voting period is over, this should be split. I don't have the game, so I can't really do it, but someone who has the game should. This is just to bring to attention that no action has been taken. {{User:Bop1996/sig}}
:I have the game, and I was personally against the proposal in the first place. But, I'll do it, since a proposal is a proposal, even though I'm convinced most supporters haven't even played the game. {{User:BabyLuigiOnFire/sig}}
I'm with BabyLuigiOnFire. I have played this game before and have beaten the boss (Not the harder one. I saw a video for that) and I assume as well that most of the supporters didn't even play it and just assume just because of a different color and little more power than Behemoth, means that its a "Boss that should have its own page" --[[User:Gameboyz829|Gameboyz829]]

==Merge Behemoth King to Behemoth==
{{TPP}}
The proposal at the top of this page has the majority vote to split the Behemoth King from Behemoth. However, I think they should be merged back together.

The opposition from the previous proposal has some evidence that, even though they look different and have different attack power, they are still the same creature. Even though I've played no ''Final Fantasy'' games, looking at the opposition and comments from the split proposal has some pretty good evidence that the bosses, even though they're slightly different in strength and looks, behave almost identically to each other.

And before you comment about this, comparing bosses in the same game that '''''clearly have different traits, besides looks and/or attack power''''' or '''''comparing bosses and enemies in the same game''''' or even '''''comparing bosses in completely different games''''' does not count as being split.

If this proposal passes, the Behemoth King article's information will be merged to the Behemoth article, with a redirect in its place. If it doesn't, then the page will stay the same as it is.<br>

'''Proposer''': {{User|Owencrazyboy9}}<br>
'''Deadline''': December 23, 2017, 23:59 GMT

====Support (Merge the Behemoth King information into Behemoth)====
#{{User|Owencrazyboy9}} As previously stated above and the opposition's votes and comments from the previous proposal. Kind of surprised the proposal is going to end on Christmas Eve!
#{{User|Alex95}} - "''Behemoth King has a slightly different attack pattern, and it is more resilient to attacks than Behemoth. Other than this and its color swap, there is little to no difference to Behemoth.''" Per article.
#{{User|YoshiStar28}} Per article. There's no difference here but I'll take it!

====Oppose (Keep the Behemoth King information split)====
#{{User|YoshiFlutterJump}} No.  Just no.  Yes, he is just a stronger palette swap, but we have separate articles for the R and DX enemies from ''Dream Team'', the Paper enemies in ''Paper Jam'', the X Bosses in ''Bowser's Inside Story'' and ''Dream Team'', and even the Dreamy enemies from ''Dream Team'''s final boss fight.  They are also just palette swaps.  Why should this be any different?  If we merge the Behemoths, we merge all of these guys, and that is certainly something we don't want, as numerous proposals have ended in favor of keeping these guys split.
#{{User|Lord Bowser}} If we have separate articles for X bosses from the M&L games, which are ''exactly'' the same aside from a palette swap and higher stats, then there's no reason to merge these two articles together when their subjects are less similar than that.

====Comments====
Tbh, re-examining my arguments against splitting from way back I don't think it's any different than the numerous palette swap enemies the RPG introduced, which also have their own pages. {{User:Baby Luigi/sig}} 15:49, 9 December 2017 (EST)

@YoshiFlutter Jump: I '''''"never"''''' said to merge all the X and R enemies with each other after this proposal. Only the Behemoth King and Behemoth articles would be merged into one. &ndash; [[User:Owencrazyboy9|Owencrazyboy9]] ([[User talk:Owencrazyboy9|talk]]) 00:05, 10 December 2017 (EST)
:I as saying that if we made this move, we should make ''all those other moves''.  I'll edit my vote to make that more clear. -{{User:YoshiFlutterJump/sig}} 00:19, 10 December 2017 (EST)
@@ Line 1: / Line 1: @@
 ==Split [[Behemoth King]] from Behemoth==
-{{Settled TPP}}
+{{SettledTPP}}
-{{Proposal outcome|passed|8-4|split}}
+{{ProposalOutcome|passed|8-4|split}}
 Can I please ask why these two are together? They have different names, different looks, different moves, and different stats. My point being they're different people, so again I ask; why are they together? This might be a little short, but it's because the fact that they're different entities is a simple reason that I really don't need to elaborate.
@@ Line 58: / Line 58: @@
 I'm with BabyLuigiOnFire. I have played this game before and have beaten the boss (Not the harder one. I saw a video for that) and I assume as well that most of the supporters didn't even play it and just assume just because of a different color and little more power than Behemoth, means that its a "Boss that should have its own page" --[[User:Gameboyz829|Gameboyz829]]
-==Merge Behemoth King to Behemoth or expand Behemoth King article==
+==Merge Behemoth King to Behemoth==
-{{Settled TPP}}
+{{TPP}}
-{{Proposal outcome|passed|2-9-3|expand the behemoth king article}}
 The proposal at the top of this page has the majority vote to split the Behemoth King from Behemoth. However, I think they should be merged back together.
@@ Line 67: / Line 66: @@
 And before you comment about this, comparing bosses in the same game that '''''clearly have different traits, besides looks and/or attack power''''' or '''''comparing bosses and enemies in the same game''''' or even '''''comparing bosses in completely different games''''' does not count as being split.
-If this proposal passes, the Behemoth King article's information will be merged to the Behemoth article, with a redirect in its place. If it doesn't, then the page will stay the same as it is.
+If this proposal passes, the Behemoth King article's information will be merged to the Behemoth article, with a redirect in its place. If it doesn't, then the page will stay the same as it is.<br>
-EDIT: Now I'm adding a second support option for possibly not merging the Behemoth King information to Behemoth, but instead expanding the Behemoth King article to about the same length of Behemoth; as in, describing attacks, etc.<br>
 '''Proposer''': {{User|Owencrazyboy9}}<br>
 '''Deadline''': December 23, 2017, 23:59 GMT
-====Merge the Behemoth King information into Behemoth====
+====Support (Merge the Behemoth King information into Behemoth)====
-#{{User|Owencrazyboy9}} My second preferred choice. Kind of surprised the proposal is going to end on Christmas Eve!
+#{{User|Owencrazyboy9}} As previously stated above and the opposition's votes and comments from the previous proposal. Kind of surprised the proposal is going to end on Christmas Eve!
 #{{User|Alex95}} - "''Behemoth King has a slightly different attack pattern, and it is more resilient to attacks than Behemoth. Other than this and its color swap, there is little to no difference to Behemoth.''" Per article.
+#{{User|YoshiStar28}} Per article. There's no difference here but I'll take it!
-====Expand the Behemoth King article with no merge====
+====Oppose (Keep the Behemoth King information split)====
-#{{User|Owencrazyboy9}} This is my preferred choice. Expanding the Behemoth King article to describe what it does, how to fight it and all the other information necessary works well for me.
-#{{User|YoshiFlutterJump}} Well, what's the downside to expanding an article?  I oppose the merge, but this is an okay option.
-#{{User|Alex95}} - If more information can be added, then by all means.
-#{{User|Baby Luigi}} Per all.
-#{{User|TheFlameChomp}} Per all.
-#{{User|YoshiStar28}} Per everyone.
-#{{User|Lcrossmk8}} Per everyone. What is the downside to expanding an article? I think this is the more decisive option and the best of the choices.
-#{{User|LuigiMaster123}} Per all.
-#{{User|Time Turner}} I don't see a good reason to not add more information. Per all.
-====Do absolutely nothing====
 #{{User|YoshiFlutterJump}} No.  Just no.  Yes, he is just a stronger palette swap, but we have separate articles for the R and DX enemies from ''Dream Team'', the Paper enemies in ''Paper Jam'', the X Bosses in ''Bowser's Inside Story'' and ''Dream Team'', and even the Dreamy enemies from ''Dream Team'''s final boss fight.  They are also just palette swaps.  Why should this be any different?  If we merge the Behemoths, we merge all of these guys, and that is certainly something we don't want, as numerous proposals have ended in favor of keeping these guys split.
 #{{User|Lord Bowser}} If we have separate articles for X bosses from the M&L games, which are ''exactly'' the same aside from a palette swap and higher stats, then there's no reason to merge these two articles together when their subjects are less similar than that.
-#{{User|MrConcreteDonkey}} - Per all, and Baby Luigi's comments below. I mean...if there's more information then yes, expand it, but you shouldn't need a proposal to do that.
 ====Comments====
@@ Line 99: / Line 85: @@
 @YoshiFlutter Jump: I '''''"never"''''' said to merge all the X and R enemies with each other after this proposal. Only the Behemoth King and Behemoth articles would be merged into one. &ndash; [[User:Owencrazyboy9|Owencrazyboy9]] ([[User talk:Owencrazyboy9|talk]]) 00:05, 10 December 2017 (EST)
 :I as saying that if we made this move, we should make ''all those other moves''.  I'll edit my vote to make that more clear. -{{User:YoshiFlutterJump/sig}} 00:19, 10 December 2017 (EST)
-Now I'm adding a second support option to possibly expand the article instead of merging it.
-{{unsigned|Owencrazyboy9}}
-:Don't think an option to expand should be left to proposals imo. It should be just the default, right thing to do. {{User:Baby Luigi/sig}} 16:22, 10 December 2017 (EST)
-::I haven't played Mario Sports Mix yet, so I can't expand it that well. If the proposal passes with support option 2 getting the most votes, then someone who has played it can. &ndash; [[User:Owencrazyboy9|Owencrazyboy9]] ([[User talk:Owencrazyboy9|talk]]) 16:34, 10 December 2017 (EST)
-:::I have played it but it's such a long time ago that I don't quite remember the moves. {{User:Baby Luigi/sig}} 21:52, 17 December 2017 (EST)
-@Alex Literally everything you said there describes every stronger variant enemy from every RPG game. By that logic, we should merge [[Chained Kong]] and [[Guerilla]], among eleventeen thousand other things. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 04:27, 22 December 2017 (EST)
-@Doc von Schmeltwick Alex95 voted on the proposal when it only had the merge option. Now, he voted for the expand option later on when I introduced it to this proposal. And for proposals with more than one support choice let you vote on multiple choices at once, his two votes could be both primary and secondary choices. &ndash; [[User:Owencrazyboy9|Owencrazyboy9]] ([[User talk:Owencrazyboy9|talk]]) 10:50, 22 December 2017 (EST)