Editing Talk:Beanie

==Category?==
Would it be overkill to make {{fake link|Category:Beanies}}? [[User:Niiue|Niiue]] ([[User talk:Niiue|talk]]) 03:15, 13 August 2017 (EDT)
:Given that there's [[Beanie|only]] [[Parabeanie|like]] [[Gold Beanie|three]], then yes, yes it would. {{User|Doc von Schmeltwick}} 02:48, 13 August 2017 (CT)
::[[Pestnut (Chucklehuck Woods)|Five]] [[Pestnut (Oho Ocean)|actually]]. [[User:Niiue|Niiue]] ([[User talk:Niiue|talk]]) 03:52, 13 August 2017 (EDT)
:::Per [[MarioWiki:Categories#Size and scope|this]]: not really necessary if they're all already listed on the [[Beanie]] page. {{User:Mario jc/sig}} 03:58, 13 August 2017 (EDT)
::::They could probably fit in [[:Category:Beanish]] maybe? Or is that mainly for the more humanoid characters? {{User:Alex95/sig}} 12:48, 13 August 2017 (EDT)
:::::The Beanish category is vaguely defined, considering it also includes [[Beanlet]]s, which are explicitly shown to be ''pets'' of the Beanish, and at one point included every enemy that was equivalent to another enemy from the main series ([[Lakipea]], for example, was including since it was the "Beanish" equivalent of a [[Lakitu]]). It could do with a good once-over. {{User:Time Turner/sig}} 13:00, 13 August 2017 (EDT)

== Identifier ==
This didn't have an identifier before. This is an enemy that has appeared in three fairly-popular games. The other Beanie is a projectile that one boss rarely shoots (seemingly preferring to use vines, iirc) from a largely-unpopular game. Logic dictates that this could easily take priority....but either way, the identifier's bad, it should be "''Mario & Luigi'' series" since they appeared in ''Dream Team'' during one of Gold Beanie's attacks. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 23:42, 20 June 2018 (EDT)
:I've actually played ''Yoshi's New Island'' and I ''completely forgot'' about the Beanies from that game. I'm for killing the identifier altogether. {{User:7feetunder/sig}} 02:30, 30 August 2018 (EDT)
::As told [[Talk:Beanie (Yoshi's New Island)|here]], those from Yoshi's New Island don't have a source of the Beanie name (hence Snifberg isn't called after the enemy either). --{{User:FanOfYoshi/sig}} 10:59, 30 September 2018 (EDT)
:::I would support removing the identifier from this page, as these Beanies are recurring enemies, rather than projectiles. The current identifier is definitely incorrect due to their appearance in ''Dream Team''. --{{User:TheFlameChomp/sig}} 11:03, 30 September 2018 (EDT)
::::The page says that it’s about the recurring character, not [[Big Beanie|the boss]]. I know that the [[Mame-san]] that it shoots out would be called Beanies, but since there is no source, the Big Beanie would not have much related to these Beanies.

—-[[User:OhoJeeOnFire|OhoJeeOnFire]] ([[User talk:OhoJeeOnFire|talk]]) 12:03, October 9, 2021 (EDT)
:::::This was already resolved two years ago. {{User:Swallow/sig}} 12:22, October 9, 2021 (EDT)
::::::Oops… Sorry. My mistake. —-[[User:OhoJeeOnFire|OhoJeeOnFire]] ([[User talk:OhoJeeOnFire|talk]]) 12:48, October 9, 2021 (EDT)

== Derived from Goombas? ==
On the page, it says Beanies are a derived species of Goomba. I thought they were just the BeanBean Kingdom's equivalent of Goombas. Should I change Goombas to a related species? [[User:Mikan-chan|Kan Kan Mikan~]] ([[User talk:Mikan-chan|talk]]) 19:16, May 29, 2019 (EDT)
:They seem somewhat along the lines of Lakipea, Sharpea, Troopea, and other bean versions of normal enemies. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 21:43, May 30, 2019 (EDT)
::The way the species relations parameters work on here is sort of vague. They seem to at least be ''conceptually'' derived from them, but they aren't a ''variant'' of them. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 22:12, May 30, 2019 (EDT)
:::I see. Well, thanks for your time. :D [[User:Mikan-chan|Kan Kan Mikan~]] ([[User talk:Mikan-chan|talk]]) 05:42, June 2, 2019 (EDT)
::::More than two years have passed and Beanies are '''STILL''' variants of [[Goomba]]s. Why hasn’t anyone changed it?
—-[[User:OhoJeeOnFire|OhoJeeOnFire]] ([[User talk:OhoJeeOnFire|talk]]) 17:32, October 11, 2021 (EDT)

== Confusion ==

I can’t understand why beanies are variants of [[Goomba]]s. Is there any reason why they are variants? I personally would say that you can compare beanies to Goombas.

—-[[User:OhoJeeOnFire|OhoJeeOnFire]] ([[User talk:OhoJeeOnFire|talk]]) 19:09, October 8, 2021 (EDT)
:They function as the Beanbean equivalent of Goombas, which is supported by the Japanese name. {{User:Niiue/sig}} 17:42, October 11, 2021 (EDT)
:I know they function like Goombas, but how the variants work is confusing. They could just be comparable because they seem to have a rivalry against each other. Plus, they are only ‘’conceptually'' derived, not ''variants'', as explained in the previous comment more than two years ago.
—-[[User:OhoJeeOnFire|OhoJeeOnFire]] ([[User talk:OhoJeeOnFire|talk]]) 08:07, October 12, 2021 (EDT)
::On the contrary, we do list [[Shrooblet]]s as "comparable" in the Goomba's infobox despite clearly being the Shroob versions of Goombas. {{User:Swallow/sig}} 08:11, October 12, 2021 (EDT)
:::That is my point. Since Shrooblets are the Shroob versions of Goombas, and Beanies are the Beanish versions of Goombas, how come Shrooblets are comparable and Beanies are variants? I know that [[Troopea]]s are variants of [[Koopa Troopa]]s, but this makes sense because the Bros. fight them as if they were normal Koopa Troopas, which don’t appear in the game. On the other hand, Goombas are weaker than Beanies and both appear in the game. The stats of the Goomba is: hp: 4 attack: 1 defense: 19 speed: 4. The stats of the Beanie is: hp: 6 attack: 18 defense: 20 speed: 18. As you can see, Goombas are weaker than Beanies by quite a lot. Though this doesn’t really prove that Beanies are not variants of Goombas, one version of each enemy only appears. There is no enemy duplicate. I also know that a few names contain a part of “Goomba,” but that is not the point. A few other variants of other enemies don’t contain part of the main enemy’s name in another language. Besides, Shrooblets are more than being conceptually derived from Goombas, they are more like a transformation. But it is good enough for Shrooblets to be comparable.
—-[[User:OhoJeeOnFire|OhoJeeOnFire]] ([[User talk:OhoJeeOnFire|talk]]) 08:15, October 12, 2021 (EDT)
::::The different stats are because of game progression, like in Dream Team regular Goombas have much higher stats than [[Gromba]]s because they are fought a lot later. {{User:Swallow/sig}} 08:53, October 12, 2021 (EDT)
:::::I know that, but they have absolutely nothing to do with being variants of Goombas. Just because they are fought earlier is not the point. I don’t think Beanies are variants of Goombas. Plus, they seem to not want to be related in any way to Beanies. Also, most variants know about the main species, which is not the case with Beanies.
—-[[User:OhoJeeOnFire|OhoJeeOnFire]] ([[User talk:OhoJeeOnFire|talk]]) 09:00, October 12, 2021 (EDT)
:::I'd argue that Shrooblets ''should'' be listed as Goomba variants rather than a vaguely related species. {{User:Niiue/sig}} 09:04, October 12, 2021 (EDT)
I agree. Maybe we can make a switch; Beanies and Shrooblets swapping places. What do you think?
—-[[User:OhoJeeOnFire|OhoJeeOnFire]] ([[User talk:OhoJeeOnFire|talk]]) 09:07, October 12, 2021 (EDT)
:The ultimate reason is it's a leftover from before I had the species infobox parameters altered, which wasn't terrifically long ago. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 14:40, October 12, 2021 (EDT)

== Proposal ==
{{Settled TPP}}
{{Proposal outcome|passed|1-0-8-1|Consider both Beanies and Shrooblets as variants of Goombas}}
This conversation has taken a bit too long. I am making a proposal to see what anyone thinks about this idea. It will be about if we can change Beanies and Shrooblets to a different infobox category in Goomba. I personally think we should swap the two, for this reason; Beanies don’t have any relationship to Goombas, and Shrooblets have a relationship to Goombas. The “Beanies Only” section is to vote for making Beanies comparable. The “Shrooblets Only” section is to vote for making Shrooblets variants. I personally think Beanies should be comparable, but I don’t have an opinion about Shrooblets.

'''Proposer:''' {{User|OhoJeeOnFire}}<br>
'''Deadline:''' October 26, 2021, 23:59 GMT

===Switch Beanies and Shrooblets===
# Per proposal. Second Choice. [[User:OhoJeeOnFire|OhoJeeOnFire]] ([[User talk:OhoJeeOnFire|talk]])

===Beanies only===

===Shrooblets only===
#{{User|Hewer}} It seems pretty obvious to me that they're both variants of Goombas.
#{{User|Archivist Toadette}} <del>It still doesn't explain why [[Captain Goomba (Mario & Luigi series)|Captain Goomba]] doesn't recognizes a Beanie when he sees one at the start of his journey.</del> Per Hewer.
#{{User|Scrooge200}}. I’ve always seen Beanies to Goombas as Lakipeas are to Lakitus, Troopeas are to Troopas, Sharpeas are to Spinies... The Japanese name also supports this. The M&L series always has some variant of Goomba as an early-game enemy: see Goombule and Gromba as well.
#{{User|Swallow}} Per all.
#{{User|Tails777}} Wait... Shrooblets weren't considered Goomba variants this whole time? Visual connections being obvious enough, yeah, definitely. Also, per Scrooge200.
#{{User|Somethingone}} Per proposal. I fail to see what makes one a variant and the other just “comparable”. Both are kingdom-related variants, both should be considered such.
# Per Proposal. New First Choice. I understand what everyone means about this.[[User:OhoJeeOnFire|OhoJeeOnFire]] ([[User talk:OhoJeeOnFire|talk]])
#{{User|Niiue}} Per all.

===Do nothing===
#{{User|LinkTheLefty}} Beanie parallels other Beanbean counterparts like Troopea, Lakipea, Sharpea, Boomer/Beanerang Bro, etc. It just wouldn't sit right with me to treat it any different from those. As for Shrooblet, I'd prefer to do nothing due to no known name being derived from Goomba and the fact that standard Shroobs are already considered comparable to Toads instead of a variant. Basically, consistency with related species.

===Comments===
If anyone is confused, look at the previous comment for information about what this is about. —-[[User:OhoJeeOnFire|OhoJeeOnFire]] ([[User talk:OhoJeeOnFire|talk]]) 09:19, October 12, 2021 (EDT)

Why isn't there an option to consider both of them variants? {{User:Hewer/sig}} 10:42, October 12, 2021 (EDT)

Oh, that’s the “Shrooblets only” section. It is for making Shrooblets variants only. Beanies are already variants. —-[[User:OhoJeeOnFire|OhoJeeOnFire]] ([[User talk:OhoJeeOnFire|talk]]) 10:56, October 12, 2021 (EDT)

== Super Mario Odyssey reference? ==
I know this sounds made up but in the mission where you find the Bonneton that's hiding on the New Donker's head if you talk to the Bonneton near the start of New Donk City he says "Those two have the attention spans of beanies! I hope they're not running around with borrowed legs..." I know this could be a coincidence but do you think it's notable enough to add to the trivia? [[User:I&#39;manumber1|I&#39;manumber1]] ([[User talk:I&#39;manumber1|talk]]) 12:55, April 16, 2022 (EDT)
:I believe they just meant "beanie" as in the hat. [[User:Somethingone|Somethingone]] ([[User talk:Somethingone|talk]]) 12:58, April 16, 2022 (EDT)

== Beanbean Kingdom counterparts of enemies might not be variations? ==

{{talk}}
I've noticed quite a bit of discussion on whether Beanies are truly a type of Goomba, and one of the main defenses seems to be that the other Beanbean enemies are already variants, so why not Beanies? However, the remake does ''seem'' to provide a basis for considering these species as not a direct variant of the enemies through some enemy descriptions in ''[[Minion Quest: The Search for Bowser|Minion Quest]]'':
*[[Troopea]]s and [[Paratroopea]]s are described as "resembling" [[Koopa Troopa]]s and [[Koopa Paratroopa|Paratroopa]]s respectively (though, [[Elite Troopea]]s are also described as "resembling" regular Troopeas, and likewise with [[Scaratroopea]]s).
** See also: [https://youtu.be/LBoVtdtSqYc?t=4777 the "fake Koopa" cutscene] quoted in the Troopea article.
*[[Sharpea]]s are described as "resembling" [[Spiny|Spiny]]s.
*[[Gritty Goomba]]s are stated to "resemble" Goombas, only "much grittier". This seems to line up with the enemy's Japanese name notably not being some sort of pun on ''kuribo'' (though, this is also the case with [[Chuck Guy]], whose case likely has more to do with the original design as seen in the prototype not being a Shy Guy at all).
*[[Beanerang Bro]]s. are said to "look like [[Boomerang Bro]]s., but more stylish." (Worth noting that they were originally just called "Boomerang Brothers", even in Japanese)
*[[Lakipea]]s, [[Chuck Guy]]s, [[Limbo Bro]]s, [[Piranha Bean]]s, and of course, [[Beanie]]s, are not stated to be related to their counterparts.
*[[Ice Snifit (Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga)|Ice Snifit]]s are outright stated to be Snifits.

Complicating matters, statements like these are also made of a few enemies in ''[[Bowser Jr.'s Journey]]'', even though (as far as I know) the game takes place in the same Mushroom Kingdom area as most Mario games:
*[[Chuboomba]]s are stated to resemble Goombas.
*[[Toothy]]s are stated to bear a resemblance to [[Pokey]]s.
*[[King Lakitu]]s, [[Fawful Guy]]s and [[Magifoofa]]s are outright stated to be [[Lakitu]]s, [[Shy Guy]]s and [[Magikoopa]]s respectively.

Thoughts? I'm wondering how the Japanese script handles these descriptions... [[User:DrippingYellow|DrippingYellow]] ([[User talk:DrippingYellow|talk]]) 16:28, April 26, 2024 (EDT)

: If the game never says Beanies and Goombas aren't related, then we shouldn't be making assumptions that they are. [[User:PrincessPeachFan|PrincessPeachFan]] ([[User talk:PrincessPeachFan|talk]]) 09:58, April 28, 2024 (EDT)
::To be fair, in Minion Quest, an otherwise Goomba-only level has Pestnuts as enemy troops at one point, but that's likely to play off them having "Kuri" in the Japanese name. Chuboomba, meanwhile, is clearly just a super-fat Goomba. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 12:08, April 28, 2024 (EDT)