Editing Talk:Bat (ghost)

==Split the ''Dark Moon'' bats back off of this article==
{{TPP}}
This article was moved from "Bat (''Luigi's Mansion'')" to "Bat (ghost)" to stay true to our identifier hierarchy, but this is erroneous; the bats from ''Luigi's Mansion'' are ghosts, but the ones from ''Dark Moon'' are not. I would just move it back, but there's a much better solution, one that addresses a much more important problem with this article: these should never have been merged in the first place.

[[Talk:Bat_(Luigi%27s_Mansion:_Dark_Moon)#Merge_Luigi.27s_Mansion_Bat_with_Bat_.28Luigi.27s_Mansion:_Dark_Moon.29|Here's the proposal that got them merged]]. Some of the supportive comments present outright false information, so I'm guessing it passed purely due to a lack of fact-checking. Simply put, the bats in ''Dark Moon'' look ''jack squat'' like the ones in the first game. To clarify, the ''Luigi's Mansion'' bats are bright purple, have huge ears, have big yellow eyes, and are ghosts. The ''Dark Moon'' bats are black (''not'' purple, as claimed by one of the old proposal's supporters), have red eyes, have less exaggerated features, and are not ghosts. The ''Luigi's Mansion'' bats hang on the the ceiling and and go directly for Luigi when approached, while the ''Dark Moon'' bats tend to just fly in one direction or fly around in circles. ''Dark Moon'' bats sometimes drop money or hearts when killed with the [[Strobulb]], while the original game's bats never drop anything IIRC. Both bats have gold variants, but the original game's gold bats only have a minor behavioral difference from the purple ones (unlike the [[Gold Mouse|gold mice]]), while the gold bats in ''Dark Moon'' actually do what you'd expect gold enemies to do: drop lots of cash, making them more comparable to the gold [[Beetle (Luigi's Mansion: Dark Moon)|beetle]]s and [[Spider (Luigi's Mansion: Dark Moon)|spider]]s than the gold ghost bats from the original game.

So to sum up, these bats look nothing alike, behave differently, and one's a ghost and the other's not a ghost. No enemies from ''Luigi's Mansion'' other than Boos return in ''Dark Moon'', so there's no reason to assume that these bats are the same. Honestly, we might as well merge the [[Shy Guy (Luigi's Mansion)|Shy Guy ghosts]] with [[Shy Guy]] if we're going to consider these bats identical.

Unfortunately, we don't seem to have any images of the ''Dark Moon'' bats on this wiki, and I lack the tools to provide one, so I'll just link [https://youtu.be/ryJOcVjRFkY?t=285 this clip] so you can see how little it resembles the ''LM'' ghost bats.

'''Proposer''': {{User|7feetunder}}<br>
'''Deadline''': December 10, 2017, 23:59 GMT

====Support====
#{{User|7feetunder}} Per proposal.
#{{User|Alex95}} - Having played ''Dark Moon'', I can confirm personally that any of the small creatures (bats, spiders, mice, etc.) do not appear to be ghosts at all.
#{{User|TheFlameChomp}} Per proposal.
#{{User|Time Turner}} Per all.
#{{User|Owencrazyboy9}} Per all. Also, the end date used to show 2011, but I've fixed it.
#{{User|YoshiFlutterJump}} Per all.
#{{User|Yoshi the SSM}} Per all.
#{{User|Toadette the Achiever}} Per all.
#{{User|Doc von Shmeltwick}} THANK YOU, I was going to do this myself, but forgot to. Gosh, so many proposals are needing made, and this is one of the better wikis out there....

====Oppose====

====Comments====
I can provide a [https://i.imgur.com/bqLb3Lw.jpg kinda-pixelly image] from Prima. {{User:Time Turner/sig}} 16:25, 26 November 2017 (EST)
:That image only shows the gold bats. No images of the regular black ones? {{User:7feetunder/sig}} 16:44, 26 November 2017 (EST)
@@ Line 1: / Line 1: @@
 ==Split the ''Dark Moon'' bats back off of this article==
-{{Settled TPP}}
+{{TPP}}
-{{Proposal outcome|passed|14-0|split}}
 This article was moved from "Bat (''Luigi's Mansion'')" to "Bat (ghost)" to stay true to our identifier hierarchy, but this is erroneous; the bats from ''Luigi's Mansion'' are ghosts, but the ones from ''Dark Moon'' are not. I would just move it back, but there's a much better solution, one that addresses a much more important problem with this article: these should never have been merged in the first place.
@@ Line 22: / Line 21: @@
 #{{User|Yoshi the SSM}} Per all.
 #{{User|Toadette the Achiever}} Per all.
-#{{User|Doc von Schmeltwick}} THANK YOU, I was going to do this myself, but forgot to. Gosh, so many proposals are needing made, and this is one of the better wikis out there....
+#{{User|Doc von Shmeltwick}} THANK YOU, I was going to do this myself, but forgot to. Gosh, so many proposals are needing made, and this is one of the better wikis out there....
-#{{User|Niiue}} Per all.
-#{{User|BBQ Turtle}} Per all, they do not resemble ghosts at all.
-#{{User|YoshiStar28}} Good idea. After all, bats are creatures that appear at night.
-#{{User|Lcrossmk8}} There seem to be some really good facts here, and overall, I think this is the side to go with. Per all. I also never really thought that the bats were the same thing--I mean, one is an actual bat and one is a fake ghost.
-#{{User|Astro-Lanceur}}Per all.
 ====Oppose====
@@ Line 34: / Line 28: @@
 I can provide a [https://i.imgur.com/bqLb3Lw.jpg kinda-pixelly image] from Prima. {{User:Time Turner/sig}} 16:25, 26 November 2017 (EST)
 :That image only shows the gold bats. No images of the regular black ones? {{User:7feetunder/sig}} 16:44, 26 November 2017 (EST)
-::Pretty sure they're red, not black. Maybe that's only the spiders? [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 17:25, 26 November 2017 (EST)
-:::The spiders are red, the bats are black. Maybe there are also red bats that I'm not remembering, but I know there are black ones. {{User:7feetunder/sig}} 18:16, 26 November 2017 (EST)
-::::Nah, everything only comes in two colors. I'm just getting mixed up with the abundance of spiders. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 07:06, 28 November 2017 (EST)
-In all fairness, the situation is comparable to the ''Super Mario Sunshine'' enemy situation, as they were all created artificially through paint....darn it Nintendo, try that plot element twice in a row will you...except for the sole detail that one is a "ghost," basically meaning it's transparent and bioluminescent. Anyways, in comparison to the ''Sunshine'' situation, the deal-breaker is the "ghost" detail, just wanted to note that. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 21:55, 28 November 2017 (EST)
-== Identifier change ==
-So...since the above proposal passed, should I move the page to {{fake link|Bat (''Luigi's Mansion'')}}?  I know that the move wasn't part of the proposal, but should I move it anyway? -{{User:YoshiFlutterJump/sig}} 22:20, 10 December 2017 (EST)
-:No, "ghost" should be fine. The other bats have a game identifier because they are all the same type of bat, but ''Luigi's Mansion'' is spectral, so it's a different type. {{User:Alex95/sig}} 22:26, 10 December 2017 (EST)
-== Merge the ghost Bats and Mice from ''Luigi's Mansion'' to their respective organic counterparts from the later games ==
-{{Settled TPP}}
-{{Proposal outcome|passed|7-0|Merge articles}}
-Thanks primarily to the work of {{user|Blinker}}, we now know that the Japanese guides (and in-game script, for LM3DS) use the same non-generic names for the recurring mouse and bat enemies, which of course already share the same generic names in English. Aside from the ones in the first game being phantasmagoric, they act pretty much exactly the same (as in: like the animals they're based off of), and the designs between ''Dark Moon'' and ''3'' aren't consistent anyway either, so it's not like they're really any less different. Anyways, if this passes,
-*[[Bat (ghost)]] will be merged to [[Bat (Luigi's Mansion series)]]
-*[[Blue Mouse]] and [[Purple Mouse]] will be merged to [[Mouse]] (and probably moved to {{fake link|Mouse (Luigi's Mansion series)}} for consistency)
-*The gold information on [[Mouse]] will be merged to [[Gold Mouse]], which it is basically a watered-down version of anyways
-Now, as for the gold versions of Bats, [[Beetle (Luigi's Mansion: Dark Moon)|Beetle]]s, [[Crow]]s, [[Frog]]s, [[Fuzzball]]s, [[Robomb]]s, and [[Spider (Luigi's Mansion series)|Spider]]s, I'm not explicitly calling for them to be split in this proposal, but it can be seen as precedence, especially with how we generally split money/point-based gold versions of enemies anyway.
-'''Proposer''': {{User|Doc von Schmeltwick}}<br>
-'''Deadline''': January 20, 2024, 23:59 GMT
-===Support===
-#{{user|Doc von Schmeltwick}} - I think I've already used a "[[Talk:Vampire Wario#Split Bat-Wario and merge it to Bat Wario|driven batty]]" pun for one of these, but per.
-#{{user|Super Game Gear}} - Per proposer.
-#{{User|Camwoodstock}} - Per proposal. Feels a little weird we split what is effectively the same enemy just under a different aesthetic anyways, especially if Nintendo treats them as one and the same themselves. This is not exactly a case of [[Goomba]] vs. [[Galoomba]] where they function differently and were later named differently to boot.
-#{{User|Blinker}} - Per proposal.
-#{{User|Arend}} These enemies sharing the same unique Japanese names make this a pretty clear case of these being the same enemies with different looks, much like a ton of Zelda enemies (e.g. Octorok, Moblin, Keese), or some of the redesigned enemies throughout the Mario franchise (e.g. Thwomp, Pokey, Mr. Blizzard).
-#{{User|LinkTheLefty}} These splits need to...batter up! <small><small><small>insert crickets</small></small></small>
-#{{User|SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA)}} I had a bat joke, but it was too...batty. <small><small><small>why was I the only one laughing at the batter up joke and yet no one is laughing at mine. I guess I'm not the next Jim Gaffigan.</small></small></small>
-===Oppose===
-===Comments===