Editing Talk:Banana

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'''Deadline:''' <s>12 February 20:00</s> '''Extended:'''20 February 20:00 2010.
'''Deadline:''' <s>12 February 20:00</s> '''Extended:'''20 February 20:00 2010.


{{fake heading|3|Merge Both articles}}
<div id=fh3 class=mw-headline>Merge Both articles</div>
#{{User|Red Shell 68066vr}} Per proposal.
#{{User|Red Shell 68066vr}} Per proposal.
#{{User|Zero777}} I am Zero! Yes it won't be a bad idea to merge them since the Banana article talks about them to. Zero signing out.
#{{User|Zero777}} I am Zero! Yes it won't be a bad idea to merge them since the Banana article talks about them to. Zero signing out.
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#{{User|Reversinator}} Per all.
#{{User|Reversinator}} Per all.


{{fake heading|3|Merge only Triple Bananas}}
<div id=fh3 class=mw-headline>Merge only Triple Bananas</div>
#{{user|Coincollector}} - But with a condition in my comment below.
#{{user|Coincollector}} - But with a condition in my comment below.


{{fake heading|3|Merge only Giant Banana}}
<div id=fh3 class=mw-headline>Merge only Giant Banana</div>


{{fake heading|3|Leave unmerged}}
<div id=fh3 class=mw-headline>Leave unmerged</div>


{{fake heading|3|Comments}}
<div id=fh3 class=mw-headline>Comments</div>
OK, I don't think that this proposal is right because we have the [[Banana Bunch]] article and the triple bananas seem to fit perfectly in it. As for the Giant Banana, I you think that should be merged with the (normal) banana article, then you should merge the other giant variants into their corresponding normal-items' articles as well (IE: [[big shell|Giant Green Shell]], [[Giant Bob-omb]], etc). {{User:Coincollector/sig}}
OK, I don't think that this proposal is right because we have the [[Banana Bunch]] article and the triple bananas seem to fit perfectly in it. As for the Giant Banana, I you think that should be merged with the (normal) banana article, then you should merge the other giant variants into their corresponding normal-items' articles as well (IE: [[Giant Green Shell]], [[Giant Bob-omb]], etc). {{User:Coincollector/sig}}
:That's what I said at the [[Talk:Big Ninji|Giant Ninji]] proposal. It seems more consistent and will knock off a stub at the same time!--{{User:Gamefreak75/Sig}}
:That's what I said at the [[Talk:Big Ninji|Giant Ninji]] proposal. It seems more consistent and will knock off a stub at the same time!--{{User:Gamefreak75/Sig}}
::But aren't Banana Bunches and Triple Bananas different things? --{{User|Garlic Man}}
::But aren't Banana Bunches and Triple Bananas different things? --{{User|Garlic Man}}
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{{Settled TPP}}
{{Settled TPP}}
{{Proposal outcome|passed|15-0|split}}
{{Proposal outcome|passed|15-0|split}}
It's been a few years since the last proposal, so I'd say opinions have changed, especially with [[big shell|every]] [[Giant Cannonball|single]] [[Giant Coin|other]] [[Giant Question Block|item]] [[Giant Ninji|or]] [[Mega Guy|enemy]] [[Giant Yoshi Egg|that]] [[big shell|is]] [[Giant Bob-omb|currently]] [[big shell|has]] [[Big Fuzzy|an]] [[Big Goomba|article]] [[Mega Goomba (species)|on]] [[Mega Goomba (boss)|the]] [[Mega Unagi|Mario]] [[Mega Chomp|Wiki]]. Honestly, I think the barrage of links speaks for itself; there is an overwhelming precedence for giving articles to entities that vary from their counterparts in size, so I don't see why the Giant Banana should be left out.
It's been a few years since the last proposal, so I'd say opinions have changed, especially with [[Giant Blue Shell|every]] [[Giant Cannonball|single]] [[Giant Coin|other]] [[Giant Question Block|item]] [[Giant Ninji|or]] [[Mega Guy|enemy]] [[Giant Yoshi Egg|that]] [[Giant Green Shell|is]] [[Giant Bob-omb|currently]] [[Giant Red Shell|has]] [[Big Fuzzy|an]] [[Big Goomba|article]] [[Mega Goomba (species)|on]] [[Mega Goomba (boss)|the]] [[Mega Unagi|Mario]] [[Mega Chomp|Wiki]]. Honestly, I think the barrage of links speaks for itself; there is an overwhelming precedence for giving articles to entities that vary from their counterparts in size, so I don't see why the Giant Banana should be left out.


'''Proposer''': {{User|Time Turner}}<br>
'''Proposer''': {{User|Time Turner}}<br>
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== Split Banana Peel from Banana - take 3 ==
== Split Banana Peel from Banana - take 3 ==
{{Settled TPP}}
{{TPP}}
{{Proposal outcome|passed|15-4|Split}}
This has been proposed (and failed) at least twice before, with the last attempt being 8 years ago (ie, before I started actually editing here). The main reason it failed was alleged mingling of the subject, which amounts to "sometimes banana peel items are just called bananas and two ''Mario Kart'' games from the turn of the millennium (MK64 and MKSC) used a banana as an icon for the banana peel." Personally, I find this to be rather weak reasoning to keep them merged, when for all intents and purposes they are different things with different appearances and different functions. The ''Mario Kart'' icon quirk could easily just be mentioned on the banana page while otherwise the information would be covered on the Banana Peel page. We have since changed how many other MK items are organized (splitting the triples, splitting Dash Mushroom from Mushroom, splitting Golden Dash Mushroom from Golden Mushroom, making a generalized Koopa Shell article in addition to the colored ones), and I believe it's time to do the same here.
This has been proposed (and failed) at least twice before, with the last attempt being 8 years ago (ie, before I started actually editing here). The main reason it failed was alleged mingling of the subject, which amounts to "sometimes banana peel items are just called bananas and two ''Mario Kart'' games from the turn of the millennium (MK64 and MKSC) used a banana as an icon for the banana peel." Personally, I find this to be rather weak reasoning to keep them merged, when for all intents and purposes they are different things with different appearances and different functions. The ''Mario Kart'' icon quirk could easily just be mentioned on the banana page while otherwise the information would be covered on the Banana Peel page. We have since changed how many other MK items are organized (splitting the triples, splitting Dash Mushroom from Mushroom, splitting Golden Dash Mushroom from Golden Mushroom, making a generalized Koopa Shell article in addition to the colored ones), and I believe it's time to do the same here. Furthermore, both appear as completely separate interactive objects in ''Donkey Kong 64'', with Bananas being the collectibles and Peels being a slippery interactive object found in a separate context.


'''Proposer''': {{User|Doc von Schmeltwick}}<br>
'''Proposer''': {{User|Doc von Schmeltwick}}<br>
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#{{User|EvieMaybe}} they're a distinct object with a distinct function and a distinct appearance. per
#{{User|EvieMaybe}} they're a distinct object with a distinct function and a distinct appearance. per
#{{User|ThePowerPlayer}} Bananas and Banana Peels have entirely different purposes. The opening sentence of the article makes it very clear that it's better to have this banana split.
#{{User|ThePowerPlayer}} Bananas and Banana Peels have entirely different purposes. The opening sentence of the article makes it very clear that it's better to have this banana split.
#{{User|Metalex123}} Per proposal. I noticed my opinion changed between the last proposal and this one, and I guess it does make sense to split the peel from the banana itself. Only thing is that it sounds messy to split them since a banana that is being eaten "becomes" a banana peel in the end. As long as it's made clear what's what, I'm okay with the two being split.
#{{User|DryBonesBandit}} This sounds like a case of "same name, same thing" and "they look alike, must be the same thing" to me which is incorrect; banana peels are weapons, bananas are currency, and they just happen to both come from the same plant. Per proposal and the Dash Mushroom point.
#{{User|Axii}} Per proposal.
#{{User|DrippingYellow}} Regardless of the fact that the Mario Kart banana peels are semi-consistently referred to as "Bananas" (even in ''Brawl'', where the generic banana peel trophy lists the Mario Kart series as appearances, the Mario Kart artwork sticker just calls it a Banana), this just makes more sense, and would still be consistent with how we handle things like the [[Potted Piranha Plant]], which has primarly been referred to as simply a Piranha Plant. If people being confused when searching for "Banana" is an issue, then that's what disambiguations are for.
#{{User|Camwoodstock}} Makes sense to us. Per all.
#{{User|Waddle Dingus}}Per all.
#{{User|Pizza Master}} Per all.
#{{User|Pseudo}} Per all.
#{{User|FanOfYoshi}} Per all.
#{{User|Starluxe}} Per all.


===Oppose===
===Oppose===
#{{User|Super Mario RPG}} I had a look at the comment in the previous proposal, and it says that Banana and Banana Peels are often treated interchangeably. The main article should make it more clear when they are not the same thing. A Banana Peel is the skin of the banana. A Koopa Shell is an object warn by a Koopa, rather than being part of the same thing.
#{{User|Super Mario RPG}} I had a look at the comment in the previous proposal, and it says that Banana and Banana Peels are often treated interchangeably. The main article should make it more clear when they are not the same thing. A Banana Peel is the skin of the banana. A Koopa Shell is an object warn by a Koopa, rather than being part of the same thing.
#{{User|Mario}} This is the an article on bananas in general. If you're going to split the two based on function, you may as well split everything else. The reasoning for the previous proposals still stands; this is a split on pedantry: "If there were only two distinct uses for bananas, you could try to justify a split, but that's not the case at all. As well as being obstacles in Mario Kart, they're used as similarly slip-causing items in SSB (attributed to the MK games as their origin) and Strikers (and Mario Sports Mix, but as a level hazard, since the bananas as usuable items have different effects); in the DK series, they've been used as coins, health and required collectibles to get to bosses (like Stars and Shines in the Mario 3D platformers); and there's appearances in numerous other series and games with a variety of different attributes. There's no point to separate out any one chunk of the appearances when there are so many equally distinct roles. Best to keep them all in one place." If people want to search banana, they'll find the information in this page regardless if it's banana from DKC or banana from Mario Kart or banana from Smash Bros or banana from Mario vs. Donkey Kong. Furthermore, this proposal's reasoning is to lead to Giant Banana being split into two: the peel with the flesh and the peel without the flesh for these instances, which is honestly overkill and further supports my stance that splitting these is not the way to go. The current state of the article CAN use organization and splitting, but not this way.
#{{User|Mario}} This is the an article on bananas in general. If you're going to split the two based on function, you may as well split everything else. The reasoning for the previous proposals still stands; this is a split on pedantry: "If there were only two distinct uses for bananas, you could try to justify a split, but that's not the case at all. As well as being obstacles in Mario Kart, they're used as similarly slip-causing items in SSB (attributed to the MK games as their origin) and Strikers (and Mario Sports Mix, but as a level hazard, since the bananas as usuable items have different effects); in the DK series, they've been used as coins, health and required collectibles to get to bosses (like Stars and Shines in the Mario 3D platformers); and there's appearances in numerous other series and games with a variety of different attributes. There's no point to separate out any one chunk of the appearances when there are so many equally distinct roles. Best to keep them all in one place." If people want to search banana, they'll find the information in this page regardless if it's banana from DKC or banana from Mario Kart or banana from Smash Bros or banana from Mario vs. Donkey Kong.
#{{User|Ray Trace}} Per the prior proposals that kept them merged.
#{{User|Ray Trace}} Per the prior proposals that kept them merged.
#{{User|TheUndescribableGhost}} Per Mario.


===Comments===
===Comments===
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{{@|Mario}} - Bananas are a fruit. Banana ''peels'' aren't a fruit, they're a skin. They're not just different uses of the same item, they're different items entirely. Also, much of those examples are split now anyway, like [[Golden Banana]]s and [[Giant Banana]]s. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 23:35, September 4, 2024 (EDT)
{{@|Mario}} - Bananas are a fruit. Banana ''peels'' aren't a fruit, they're a skin. They're not just different uses of the same item, they're different items entirely. Also, much of those examples are split now anyway, like [[Golden Banana]]s and [[Giant Banana]]s. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 23:35, September 4, 2024 (EDT)
:Hang on, the Giant Banana page is also covering both the fruit and the peel. Does that need splitting further? {{User:Hewer/sig}} 09:09, September 5, 2024 (EDT)
::Yes, same with Golden. They're just following how it was done here. As the basis, this should go first, they will follow. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 09:52, September 5, 2024 (EDT)
:::This seems overkill. Moreso when in Double Dash, when you get the item, your character is holding a closed banana, and it turns into a peel the moment you use it. Also, we're going to have to deal with [[:File:Diddy Tails Mark-MSB.png]] and [[:File:Diddy Red Caps Mark-MSB.png]] being in two different gallery pages (it's a further illustration of my point that the games don't even distinguish between banana and the banana peel strictly; the Mario Kart games consistently call these "bananas", not "banana peels"; players also colloquially call these "bananas" are probably are expected to search "banana" on the wiki). If we're going to split the page I recommend the DK collectible being split off to try to isolate the Mario Kart banana with the smiley face but that's still really dicey due to Mario Party using both banana and banana peels interchangeably like in [[Koopa's Seaside Soiree]], [[Mass A-peel]], [[Bananas Faster]], and instances in other games like [[Snow Day Street Hockey]], Diddy's bogey animations in Mario Golf: World Tour (you're going to have practically duplicate information since these games have bananas and the resulting peels), and so on. Sure, you can have the pages talk about both, but this would involve people jumping between the two. It's not a clean situation and I think we're better off merging it until we give considering how to organize the DK collectible and Mario Kart item (which also occurs in the sports games) and the rest of the instances. {{User:Mario/sig}} 21:18, September 5, 2024 (EDT)
::::It is a bit messy, but it would be much less messy to split them. It's less about the design and more about banana peels being their own thing (and always being used in the context of the comedy archetype prop) than about any design changes. On the rare occasion a banana is shown ''becoming'' a peel, those occasional near-dupes are fine; an overwhelming majority of the time, they are completely standalone, even at times when both appear. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 21:49, September 5, 2024 (EDT)
:::::I question if it's any better to split them since the resulting pages will be Banana, Banana Peel, Golden Banana, Golden Banana Peel, Big Banana, and Big Banana Peel, and if you're going to split on the reasoning that they look different and have different appearances, you should be thinking about how we deal with other versatile subjects that were given simple names including [[coconut]] or [[watermelon]] (should we split watermelon seed from watermelon? some games mention the seeds appearing without the watermelon) {{User:Mario/sig}} 22:06, September 5, 2024 (EDT)
::::::They probably should, as those are a projectile that are gained from the watermelons, like Fire Flowers and their resulting fireballs. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 22:11, September 5, 2024 (EDT)
Given that they're called simply Bananas in most games regardless, wouldn't that mean the article title should be {{fake link|Banana (peel)}}? {{User:Arend/sig}} 01:09, September 5, 2024 (EDT)
:[[Dash Mushroom]] is an outlier too. There's the whole "source priority exception" thing. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 01:18, September 5, 2024 (EDT)
==Jamboree==
The nanner in Bowser Kaboom Squad is called "Banana" but is clearly a Banana peel. Shouldn't we move it to Banana Peel page? [[User:PrincessPeachFan|PrincessPeachFan]] ([[User talk:PrincessPeachFan|talk]]) 01:09, January 9, 2025 (EST)

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