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| ==Merge Discussion== | | ==Merge Discussion== |
| This is a good-sized article but describes a component of both games, not a separate item. Is this the reason for the merge? {{User:Wayoshi/sig}} 21:49, 7 May 2007 (EDT) | | This is a good-sized article but describes a component of both games, not a separate item. Is this the reason for the merge? {{User:Wayoshi/sig}} 21:49, 7 May 2007 (EDT) |
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| I think so.<br>[[User:Confused|<span style="color:Red;">I</span>]] [[User talk:Confused|<span style="color:Blue;">am</span>]] [[Special:Contributions/Confused|<span style="color:Green;">Confused</span>]] 20:32, 8 May 2007 (EDT)
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| :I oppose the merge. <big> '''[[:Image:KingSheet.PNG|Click here to see the universe.]]''' '''Super'''''[[User:Super Luigi 821|Luigi]]'''''821''''' '''''[[MC Ballyhoo|Oh you let the hat out of the bag, Big Top!]]''' </big>
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| Make a proposal then. {{User:Ultramariologan/sig}}
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| :Please, can't you see this has been settled for years? I mean, this is back when Jorge was called Super Luigi 821. {{User:MrConcreteDonkey/sig}} 17:39, 1 January 2011 (EST)
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| == Koopa Troopas In the Audience ==
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| In the section on Super Paper Mario, it states that this game introduces Koopa Troopas as a new species of audience member. However, they were present in PM2:TTYD as well, and are clearly visible in the article's screenshot of said game's audience. I just thought I'd check to make sure that whoever wrote that section didn't mean to name another species but put mistakenly put in "Koopa" instead before I deleted that sentence. I mean, it MAY be merged in the future, but as of right now it's still a separate article and could stand some fixing of some mistakes. {{User:Dinosaur bob/sig}} 21:18, 16 May 2007 (EDT)
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| Ah, seems like that mistake was made in the Characters in the Audience list as well... hrm.{{User:Dinosaur bob/sig}} 21:21, 16 May 2007 (EDT)
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| == Superstar Rank ==
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| According to the article, there are no new elements after achieving Super Star rank. There are at least two. One is the fire that comes out of the spotlights, it may burn the characters. Another one is the big rock in the Pit of 100 Trials. I'm not sure about these, but there is also the bugs and the giant statue. {{User:Supermariofan14/sig}}
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| I clearly saw Luigi attempt to throw a rock at mario(lmao) in one of Wayoshi's videos.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMbHU5Lg0oo&feature=related so he is not only good {{User|yoshiyoshiyoshi}}
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| == Piranha Plants ==
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| On my latest playthrough of the Thousand-Year-Door, I've started to think about what these guys do. Is it possible that these guys might eat surrounding audience members? Not so many to cause a panic, but rarely, one might snack on a nearby viewer? It would explain the odd noise I get after a turn, and why I seem to be down by one viewer. This needs to be comfirmed. [[User:Learner4|Learner4]] 01:27, 9 May 2011 (EDT)
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| :That is true, I have seen it happen when I play. I don't know if I'm allowed to do this, but you can add that information if you want.
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| [[File:DaisyMP8Official.png|50px]][[File:YoshiMP8art.png|50px]]The Awesome Yoshi Fan [[User:Tails777|Tails777]][[File:Tails Sticker.png|50px]][[File:Toad Artwork - Mario Party 6.png|50px]]
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| == Luigi - Good or Half Bad ==
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| ...Luigi, Punis, and Toads often appear in the Audience. They will never do anything to harm Mario or his allies '''(with the exception of Luigi)''' and will throw helpful items such as Coins and Mushrooms,...
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| '''* means they always help the player.'''
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| * * means they always harm the player.
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| * * * means they can do both.
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| Boos ***
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| Bulky Bob-ombs **
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| Crazee Dayzees **
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| Dull Bones **
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| Goombas **
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| Hammer Bros.**
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| Koopa Troopas ***
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| '''Luigi *'''
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| Piranha Plants (Doesn't throw anything) (Sometimes eat the audience around)
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| Here we have two pieces of information contradicting each other, one of them needs to be corrected. I would do this myself but... I have no idea which is correct. Could somebody find out which is false, and even if you want correct it on the article. [[User:Moolala|Moolala]] ([[User talk:Moolala|talk]]) 10:15, 16 August 2012 (EDT)
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| On a side note, shouldn't we mention that the audience only appears when the player gains his/hers first special attack? [[User:Moolala|Moolala]] ([[User talk:Moolala|talk]]) 18:20, 21 August 2012 (EDT)
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| == Gus Has No Audience ==
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| In Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door, '''every battle is performed''' on a stage in '''front of the Audience'''.
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| I don't know about the stage ( because I haven't play this game ) but there isn't an audience in '''every''' battle, at least that's what [[Gus|Gus's article says.]] However maybe Gus's article is wrong. I don't know. But in Gus's article's Trivia section it clearly states there is no audience in Gus's battle. Could somebody please verify which statement is true, and if they want correct the false one? [[User:Moolala|Moolala]] ([[User talk:Moolala|talk]]) 10:35, 16 August 2012 (EDT)
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| That trivia section is incorrect. Proof: www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6GHZ9WKRYw&t=2m50s
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| I'm guessing because some people fight Gus before even stopping at the Thousand Year Door for the first time, that's the reason why an audience might not be present.
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| —A user who has been editing the [[Piercing attack|Piercing]] page quite recently— (14:06, 24 July 2013 EDT)
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| ==New Super Mario Bros. Wii==
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| Sometimes in NSMBW I hear cheers. Does that count?[[User:Rpg gamer|RPG Gamer. I HAVE RPG!!]] ([[User talk:Rpg gamer|talk]]) 09:57, 31 March 2013 (EDT)
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| ==Do the spectators who go away in Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door really return?==
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| In this page, especially in the section about the thrown items, it is written that spectators who go away return later, but I suspect that rather other spectators come in, which is something usually happening during battles which are going on well. Can you confirm that it is the same spectators who are coming back?--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 12:20, 6 July 2015 (EDT)
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| ==Luigi can harm Mario==
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| It has been discussed on various sites that Luigi CAN harm Mario, though the probability of that happening seems extremely low. Below is a video that shows an occurrence. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMbHU5Lg0oo&t=3m15s 16:44, 11 June 2016 (EDT)
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| :Interesting. We'll have to add that to the article. {{User:Bazooka Mario/sig}} 21:57, 13 June 2016 (EDT)
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| ::Have we got a more explicit video? That boulder wasn't yet explicitly thrown at Mario and, as some point out, sometimes the audience targets the enemy as well.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 21:25, 14 June 2016 (EDT)
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| :::Yeah, you could be right on that. {{User:Bazooka Mario/sig}} 20:12, 18 June 2016 (EDT)
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| == Scope of this article ==
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| {{Settled TPP}}
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| {{Proposal outcome|cancelled}}
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| More recently there have been inclusions and images added of spectators in games such as ''Mario Kart'' which I think is straying a lot from the original intention of this article: covering the audience mechanic in the ''Paper Mario'' games where the audience has an active role rather than just in the background, so I hope with this proposal we can properly determine how this article should work.
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| *Option 1 is to cover only the ''Paper Mario'' games, more specifically ''The Thousand-Year Door'' and ''The Origami King''.
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| *Option 2 is to cover the ''Paper Mario'' games as well as the specific battles from the ''Mario & Luigi'' series mentioned in the article.
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| *Option 3 is the "do nothing" option and keep the article in its current state.
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| '''Proposer''': {{User|Nightwicked Bowser}}<br>
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| '''Deadline''': November 1, 2024, 23:59 GMT
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| ===Option 1===
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| #{{User|Nightwicked Bowser}} My preferred choice
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| <s>{{User|Sparks}} The audience is a core gameplay mechanic in the ''Paper Mario'' games mentioned, so I say this article should be focused on just that.</s><br>
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| <s>{{User|Technetium}} Per all.</s>
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| ===Option 2===
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| #{{User|Nightwicked Bowser}} Secondary choice
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| #{{User|ThePowerPlayer}} I think it's important to cover any instance of the audience having a direct role in gameplay, as well as their ''Super Paper Mario'' appearance, since that gimmick is based on the audience in ''The Thousand-Year Door''. The rest of the coverage can go, though, since an audience that does nothing is a [[MarioWiki:Generic subjects|generic subject]].
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| #{{User|SolemnStormcloud}} I wouldn't say this is so much a generic subject as it is "[[MarioWiki:Good writing#Everything but the kitchen sink|everything but the kitchen sink]]", but still, per all.
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| ===Option 3===
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| #{{user|Doc von Schmeltwick}} - If the galleries for [[tree]], [[cactus]], [[horsetail]], [[camel]], and [[polar bear]] can include every texture used for them regardless of gameplay function (or lack thereof), so too can this for consistency (and note: the generic subject/kitchen sink policy is focused on ''prose'', not images; the only things listed in the history section currently are interactive elements). Besides, it's good to have them available in one place for comparison, especially with similar images like the 2D textures for MKDD, MKW, and MK7. And saying that the M&L things shouldn't be there because it's "most" important in those ''Paper Mario'' games is almost laughable in how biased it is, that's like saying we shouldn't cover Kamek in ''Mario Party 2'' since his role wasn't as important there as it is in the ''Yoshi's Island'' games. And you won't convince me that the unseen audience that cheers after getting all eight red coins or whatever challenge depending on the game starting with NSMBW shouldn't be counted, that's an interactive feature (and we cover [[Paah]], including its use in ''Super Mario 64'', so sound cues are absolutely fair game). Furthermore, the TTYD audience is itself an expansion on the Chuck Quizmo audience from PM64, so not mentioning that at all seems incomplete (and if SPM deserves to be mentioned, it does too). Just because an article is given an "original intent" doesn't restrict it from being expanded if said intent is too arbitrarily narrow, which the addition of the TOK information first demonstrated on this page. Also, for what it's worth, if I were a casual reader of the site, I'd probably be looking up "audience" to figure out what the heck the weird things I was seeing in the bleachers in ''Mario Kart'' are (since so many games have things like Piantas in the audience without naming them elsewhere), not looking to see what something throws at Mario on a stage, so listing out what appears for each game is not in any way overbearing - especially considering we have [[lists of sponsors|''several'' list pages]] and [[Gallery:Sponsors in the Mario Kart series|a gallery of their own]] detailing the various funny things the textures on background posters say, and if they're worthy enough to be listed with comparisons, so too are these. And furthermore, if I remember right, some sports games do have occasional audience participation, like when the ''Luigi's Mansion'' ghosts appear in ''Power Tennis'' and ''Sports Mix'' and the item-throwing Toads in ''Mario Kart 8'', so even then there's more "gameplay relevant" examples sprinkled in that haven't been noted yet - and preemptively limiting them from being covered in a proposal like this is extremely shortsighted.
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| #{{User|Hewer}} We don't have to remove coverage on things just because they don't have a gameplay function. The wiki covers more than just how things function in gameplay. As Doc says, there is good reason for covering the audience in non-RPGs, and this page makes the most sense to do it on. This proposal is trying to completely remove valid, non-generic information from the wiki for no reason other than the same concept having had more gameplay prominence in some RPGs. [[Whacka]]s only had gameplay functions in the Paper Mario series, so should we delete the information about its cameo in Mario Party 6?
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| #{{User|Pseudo}} Per Doc and Hewer. At most, I’d want to split the ''Paper Mario'' audience into its own page, but even that is highly unnecessary, and having articles about background elements on the wiki is still something that I consider desirable.
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| #{{User|PrincessPeachFan}}: Per all.
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| ===Comments===
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| [[File:Waluigi Stadium Crowd.gif]][[File:MKW audience B.gif]][[File:MK7 audience.gif]]<br>
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| -You telling me these shouldn't be available to be compared? Because this is really the only good way to do so. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 23:51, October 18, 2024 (EDT)
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| I'm absolutely not saying we should start deleting any mentions of subjects that are not as important of others, you know as well as I do that not mentioning Whacka in Mario Party is a ridiculous idea and I want the opposition to cease those kind of comparisons. As SolemnStormcloud says, this is more of a "everything but the kitchen sink" case of what is also what ThePowerPlayer says is a "generic subject" and it's far from the first time we've toned down coverage in general. {{User:Nightwicked Bowser/sig}} 08:19, October 19, 2024 (EDT)
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| :While I don't think Whacka is a 1-1 comparison since audiences obviously exist in real life, the fact that audiences after ''Mario Kart 64'' are exclusively made up of ''Mario''-based characters (or crossover characters) does make it more logical to give them more leeway to keep them all on one place. Besides, in many games, they make noises in response to the action (cheers, gasps, boos, etc), so they're interactive subjects to a degree anyway. As for the Kamek comparison I made, it was more directed as {{user|Sparks}}' vote. And as I said in my vote, the policies for generic subjects and "everything but the kitchen sink" are focused on prose, not galleries, hence the page's history section focusing on gameplay-relevant appearances (and still not complete, mind you). [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 11:01, October 19, 2024 (EDT)
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| :I know you wouldn't actually want to remove the Mario Party Whacka information, that's kinda the point of bringing it up. My point with that comparison was to suggest that similar logic to that used by the proposal could also be used to support something we all agree is a dumb idea, hence I don't think the logic is very good. {{User:Hewer/sig}} 16:16, October 19, 2024 (EDT)
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| I've decided to rescind my vote. Going into this proposal, I was thinking that the article should only cover when the audience serves as a gameplay mechanic, but I didn't stop to think about when they're just spectators. I have to agree with Doc with their points on comparing them throughout the games and it would be too drastic to remove every instance of the audience throughout the ''Mario'' franchise. {{User:Sparks/sig}} 11:13, October 19, 2024 (EDT)
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| Also rescinding my vote, as I think I need more time to think about things. I'm wondering though... could we possibly split this article into two? One for the gameplay mechanic (called Audience), and another for the other spectators (maybe just called Spectators)? This is probably just kind of dumb, but I thought I might as well throw the idea out here. [[User:Technetium|Technetium]] ([[User talk:Technetium|talk]]) 11:28, October 19, 2024 (EDT)
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| :Ideally, we'd split the gallery. Maybe we could also have a "list of audience members by game" similar to the sponsor thing so the table of contents here isn't bloated. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 11:47, October 19, 2024 (EDT)
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| ::That thought did cross my mind too, even if this proposal fails I would at least like the gallery to be split. {{User:Nightwicked Bowser/sig}} 19:06, October 19, 2024 (EDT)
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| : Like Doc says, if the page on [[Orange]] includes everything from its appearances, then this should cover everything too. [[User:PrincessPeachFan|PrincessPeachFan]] ([[User talk:PrincessPeachFan|talk]]) 12:52, October 21, 2024 (EDT)
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| ==Cancelled?==
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| Erm, why was the proposal cancelled? [[User:PrincessPeachFan|PrincessPeachFan]] ([[User talk:PrincessPeachFan|talk]]) 08:52, October 22, 2024 (EDT)
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| :Because it was getting lots of opposition and I didn't think it was worth keeping it going. {{User:Nightwicked Bowser/sig}} 10:20, October 22, 2024 (EDT)
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