Editing Talk:Arcade bunny

== Split {{fake link|Arcade Bunny}} from [[Sales Bunny]], or remove Sales Bunny altogether ==
{{Settled TPP}}
{{Proposal outcome|passed|8-0-0|rename to Arcade Bunny and remove Sales Bunny info}}
There's no evidence that the bunny from StreetPass Mii Plaza and Nintendo Badge Arcade are the same bunny, and saying it changed its appearance just doesn't suffice. Yes, they may look similar and the only thing they changed was the colour, but it's possible they were just designed by the same character designer(s) (They are both from first-party software after all). The term "Sales Bunny" isn't even an official name, whereas the NBA bunny's official name is "Arcade Bunny" as revealed by the recently released Mario Maker costume.

We could split the bunnies into two separate pages, but therein lies another problem. The only things StreetPass Mii Plaza had anything to do with Mario were the costumes and Puzzle Swap panels, which the bunny character was never directly involved with. A Sales Bunny page on its own wouldn't have sufficient info to make it a Mario-related page since it had the Arcade Bunny info to piggyback off of. We don't even have pages for SMP characters like Wentworth or those guys from StreetPass Garden (Flower Power). Therefore, I suggest we keep the Arcade Bunny info (after renaming it) and remove the StreetPass Sales Bunny info altogether, because like I said, they're not the same character.

'''Proposer:''' {{user|Mario jc}}<br>
'''Deadline:''' January 1, 2016, 23:59 GMT

===Rename to Arcade Bunny and remove Sales Bunny info===
#{{user|Mario jc}}
#{{User|Arend}} - See comments
#{{User|SuperYoshiBros}} Per all.
#{{User|Baby Luigi}} Per Arend
#{{User|Tucayo}} - Per Mario jc and Arend.
#{{User|Andymii}} Per all.
#{{User|Madz the Penguin}} See comments below
#{{User|LudwigVon}} Per all.

===Split Sales Bunny from Arcade Bunny===

===Oppose===

===Comments===
Wasn't there a line from Sales Bunny about his previous job being the Mii Plaza bunny? I honestly can't remember, because when you fire the game up for the first time Sales Bunny comes with level four diarrhea of the mouth. -- [[User:Ghost Jam|Ghost Jam]][[Image:Shyghost.PNG]] 06:32, 18 December 2015 (EST)

I can't really find any evidence that the Arcade Bunny and the Sales Bunny are the same person (in fact, I wouldn't think they are due to their appearances being a bit too different, despite obviously being based on it). We can probably have a reference to the Sales Bunny in the Trivia section due to their similarities. Also, we likely have to remove the Real Escape Game info too, since [http://p.news.nimg.jp/photo/602/1568602l.jpg the rabbit in that game] is also based on the Sales Bunny, yet not the Arcade Bunny either.<br>Probably the most obvious way to tell they are different is that the Arcade Bunny is male (referred with male pronouns), but the Sales Bunny is female (has a basic white dress. All female Miis in the StreetPass Mii Plaza are identified as such with a dress in their color instead of a shirt like the male Miis are. Same goes for the cats, dogs and rabbits in Find Mii/StreetPass Quest).<br>{{User|Arend}}

You should contact {{User|UhHuhAlrightDaisy}}, who started this page and made the connection in the first place. {{User:Bazooka Mario/sig}} 14:11, 18 December 2015 (EST)

Well, at least I know now why the article is named Sales Bunny in the first place: [http://badgearcade.nintendo.com/assets/img/char-sales-bunny.png several] [http://badgearcade.nintendo.com/assets/img/char-sales-bunny-squinty.png image] [http://badgearcade.nintendo.com/assets/img/char-sales-bunny-badges.png files] [http://badgearcade.nintendo.com/assets/img/char-sales-bunny-share.png of this rabbit] on the official American site start with <tt>char-sales-bunny</tt>, so at least you can associate the name with the Arcade Bunny. However, Mario Maker is about the only localized game in which he's directly named, so I believe it should be moved to Arcade Bunny anyway.<br>Also, [http://www.nintendo.com/images/page/3ds/features/streetpass/miiplaza/bunny-hole.jpg the] [http://www.nintendo.com/images/page/3ds/features/streetpass/miiplaza/bunny-armsraised.jpg files] of the other rabbit, found on the American StreetPass Mii Plaza site have her named just "bunny". {{User|Arend}}

"There's no evidence that the bunny from StreetPass Mii Plaza and Nintendo Badge Arcade are the same bunny, and saying it changed its appearance just doesn't suffice" There actually is a lot of evidence! The characters theme in the Music Player of the Mii Plaza is Salesbunny, and as his development section was written to point out, he has an extremely similar role in the games. His dialogue is even written similarly in Mii Plaza, as you can see on the quotes page. He is also actually pink, despite being pretty white, as shown with his speech-bubble in Mii Plaza actually being pink. Additionally, his model in the Badge Arcade is made from the Mii Plaza model, which becomes obvious with some of the statues of him in the Arcade, which as pointed out in the article is a recurring theme taken from his appearance in Mii Plaza where there is a golden statue of him. I recently got the blue-colored bronze statue and it's really obvious they made his model right from his original Mii version. I feel like a lot of people are jumping the gun to try and get rid of the info like this. There's all this evidence to suggest it's the same character. The most telling of which is the name Salesbunny clearly being a mere text discrepancy of Sales Bunny. Arcade Bunny might end up being his common name as of Mario Maker, of course. I hope you guys actually acknowledge all this stuff, cause I feel like it all adds up sensibly. It really is an awful lot to just be a coincidence. The most telling thing being, as mentioned, the names almost exactly matching up. [[User:UhHuhAlrightDaisy|UhHuhAlrightDaisy]] ([[User talk:UhHuhAlrightDaisy|talk]]) 01:23, 19 December 2015 (EST)

#"The characters theme in the Music Player of the Mii Plaza is Salesbunny" Should take notice that the Arcade Bunny is only called Sales Bunny in the image files on the official site of the Badge Arcade, and that the image files indicates the name being spelled with a space, unlike the Salesbunny from Mii Plaza.
#"He is also actually pink, despite being pretty white, as shown with his speech-bubble in Mii Plaza actually being pink." I've looked in my own version of the game and the Mii Plaza Bunny's speech bubble is white with a blue border. Anyway, the color of the border ''doesn't indicate the color of the rabbit''. It indicates the gender, as male Miis have blue speech bubble borders while female ones have pink borders. Now this does mean that in my version, the rabbit is male after all, but if your version has the pink border, that solidifies that the Sales Bunny of Mii Plaza is female (which, again, differentiates her from the Arcade Bunny, who has male pronouns).
#"Additionally, his model in the Badge Arcade is made from the Mii Plaza model, which becomes obvious with some of the statues of him in the Arcade, which as pointed out in the article is a recurring theme taken from his appearance in Mii Plaza where there is a golden statue of him." It's obvious that the Arcade Bunny is based on the Salesbunny from Mii Plaza, but that doesn't mean they're the same thing. It's like saying Luigi is the same person as Mario, and both had a very similar role in Mario Bros.
I feel like the Arcade Bunny is much too different from the Mii Plaza Bunny in appearance (and possibly gender). The Arcade Bunny being based on the Salesbunny from Mii Plaza is of course true, but them being the same person makes not much sense. If they ''are'' the same person, then it's especially weird to first make it white with a white dress for Mii Plaza, then make it pink and put it in a suit in Badge Arcade, ''then'' return to its old appearance and add glasses in Real Escape Game, and ''THEN'' return back to his Badge Arcade appearance in Mario Maker! And all in the span of, what, two years? It doesn't really make any sense. {{User|Arend}}

:The speech bubble I'm referring to is the greeting speech bubble the player can customize their mii to use when meeting others in StreetPass, not the characters normal talking speech bubble. And there's nothing to actually suggest the Sales Bunny is female aside form having the flared top model that is assigned to female Miis. As you pointed out, all animals in Mii Plaza have the feminine top. Suggesting him being pink adds to the idea he's female doesn't make sense because the Sales Bunny as of Arcade is even more pink. It's not a gender signifier here. "(which, again, differentiates her from the Arcade Bunny, who has male pronouns)" You're making it sound like the Salesbunny has female pronouns, which he doesn't. What it's like is as if Lemmy Koopa was called Lemmykoopa in one game and had a different sprite, which the Kooplaings sprites have changed greatly, as have many other characters models over time, and you're saying because the characters appearance was changed and there wasn't a space in the same name, that that means it's a different character?

:Everyone, I'll just close this with how silly it's going to look on his page to say: The Arcade Bunny has many similarities to the rabbit from [[StreetPass Mii Plaza]]. Firstly, the Arcade Bunny is referred to as ''sales-bunny'' in his image files on the official Nintendo Badge Arcade website, which is strikingly similar to the name of the rabbit in StreetPass Mii Plaza, Salesbunny. Before his appearance in Super Mario Maker, the Arcade Bunny's only localized name of reference was therefore Sales Bunny. The Arcade Bunny serves a very similar role to the Salesbunny, as well, both guiding the players through their respective titles and explaining the content available for purchase. The Salesbunny is also visually similar to the Arcade Bunny, being a pinkish-white rabbit with noticeably comparative facial-features and expressions. The Salesbunny's ''Bunny Speech Bubble'', available for the the player's greeting in StreetPass Mii Plaza, is pink like the Arcade Bunny. Additionally, the Salesbunny appears as a golden statue for the Game Vault icon on the main menu, a theme that is shared by the Arcade Bunny in Nintendo Badge Arcade, with him being depicted in a series of statues for the Collection mode icon.

:So that's all that. When you read that, if you still think they're different characters, I don't know what else to say. That's an awful lot. [[User:UhHuhAlrightDaisy|UhHuhAlrightDaisy]] ([[User talk:UhHuhAlrightDaisy|talk]]) 18:41, 19 December 2015 (EST)
::"As you pointed out, all animals in Mii Plaza have the feminine top." Nope, dogs in Find Mii have both male and female tops. I'm not sure about cats since I've never used them, but it's probably the same thing. --{{User:SuperYoshiBros/sig}} 20:32, 19 December 2015 (EST)
:::Well this is obviously reaching, but the bunny in Nintendo Badge Arcade changes form all the time, even looking female at times. I don't think the bunny in Mii Plaza is supposed to be female, though, there are no gendered pronouns for it. That doesn't disregard how it looks odd to have all these connections be so blunt and for people to think it's a different character, imo. [[User:UhHuhAlrightDaisy|UhHuhAlrightDaisy]] ([[User talk:UhHuhAlrightDaisy|talk]]) 21:23, 19 December 2015 (EST)

#"As you pointed out, all animals in Mii Plaza have the feminine top." I never said that all ''animals'' had the dress, but all ''females''. Besides, the animals in Find Mii can have male tops either, so this statement isn't true in the first place.
#" Suggesting him being pink adds to the idea he's female doesn't make sense because the Sales Bunny as of Arcade is even more pink. It's not a gender signifier here." That's why I suggested that ''the speech bubble's border color'' identifies the gender, not the coat color (if that were the case, the salesbunny from Mii Plaza would be gender neutral). Not to mention this border color system isn't present in Badge Arcade.
If they are the exact same character, then I've no clue why Nintendo not only made two different designs for the same character in two years but is also sticking to both of them.<br>But it's possible for the Arcade Bunny to be the ''exact same species'' as the Mii Plaza Salesbunny, which is a plausible reason to have all these connections and yet have them look quite different. It's very possible because in Find Mii, Miis (and cats and dogs) with brown shirts can summon bunnies that can help them defeat enemies. These rabbits, while all white-coated, can have different-colored shirts, which shape also differ per gender (like [http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/nintendo/images/f/fa/Wander_002.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20130630115907&path-prefix=en this one].
{{User|Arend}}

Stop the argument of whether they are the same person or not. What matters is if Sales Bunny has anything to do with the Mario series. From what I know from Streetpass Mii Plaza, Sales Bunny was never involved in anything directly Mario, while Arcade Bunny is, if this counts, giving away Mario badges. Even if Sales Bunny ate shrimp and turned into the pink Arcade Bunny like a flamingo, that doesn't matter, as Sales Bunny is about as Mario as the robots from the Rhythm Heaven game Fillbots. It's like Smash Bros. Wiki having a section for [[Bowletta]] because they are technically the same person (sort of), despite Bowletta having nothing to do with Smash Bros. Sorry if I sounded rude at first, but this needed to be said (also, I'll help delete the Sales Bunny info if this proposal passes). [[User:Madz the Penguin|Madz the Penguin]] ([[User talk:Madz the Penguin|talk]]) 18:18, 21 December 2015 (EST)
:That argument was the main point. What you're trying to go at now seems invalid because there's already coverage for the StreetPass Mii Plaza due to the Mario content in it. This proposal likely will pass, and it probably won't need any extra aid as far as removing content goes. As you can see the majority is all for it. [[User:UhHuhAlrightDaisy|UhHuhAlrightDaisy]] ([[User talk:UhHuhAlrightDaisy|talk]]) 20:50, 21 December 2015 (EST)

Also! I tried contacting Nintendo to see if they could clarify anything. I've found trying to contact people directly can prove fruitful, but as I unfortunately figured, the answer was more of a polite response for the sake of responding. lol

"Hello,
 
Thanks for writing! Unfortunately, I'm afraid there isn't an answer at this time to your question about the name of the Arcade bunny from Nintendo Badge Arcade.
 
Fans are often curious about the background stories and details behind their favorite games and characters, and this pink bunny is certainly a charmer in his own right - I'm sure you and other fans would love to know more! Some information might be revealed in-game in the future; however, many details about our games remain mysteries, left to the active imaginations of our players.
 
Thanks again for supporting Nintendo's products, and I hope you have a wonderful holiday season!
 
Sincerely,
 
Nintendo of America Inc."

So, since active imaginations aren't good enough on the MarioWiki, harhar you guys, unless it's addressed in-game in the future, it seems the most I can do is include that info aforementioned about the connections to the Salesbunny. As you saw, even Nintendo's people are now calling him the Arcade bunny, too. Maybe it took them a while to decide and they realized Sales Bunny sounds as smarmy as it is. [[User:UhHuhAlrightDaisy|UhHuhAlrightDaisy]] ([[User talk:UhHuhAlrightDaisy|talk]]) 20:58, 21 December 2015 (EST)

:You just found a counter to your point. That the Sales Bunny Arcade Bunny thing is speculation, and that is banned from Mario Wiki. Sure, we can use speculation to a certain extent, like with the "Spike is a Koopa" thing, but not with two characters being the same character. Also, about the coverage thing, we have coverage about things like [[Rhythm Tengoku: The Best Plus]]. Are we going to have to make an article about Doctor Bacteria just because Rhythm Tengoku has Wario things in there? No? Same with Streetpass Mii Plaza. We don't have an article for Wentsworth, so why should Salesbunny get coverage? [[User:Madz the Penguin|Madz the Penguin]] ([[User talk:Madz the Penguin|talk]]) 22:28, 21 December 2015 (EST)

:I just posted that. Why would I post that not realizing what that means? I myself literally said, "since active imaginations aren't good enough." And if that character was form a game where Mario content was prevalent, and they were playable in a Mario game, like the Sales Bunny, I'd say it would be appropriate to make an article for the character, yeah. But you're wording it like somebody was forced to make the article.[[User:UhHuhAlrightDaisy|UhHuhAlrightDaisy]] ([[User talk:UhHuhAlrightDaisy|talk]]) 01:53, 22 December 2015 (EST)

No need to get defensive over here and accuse people that they don't have "active imagination" (which you took from the algorithm "response"). We're concerned about being a credible source and, so, we have to take cautious approaches on coverage sometimes while avoiding speculation, and this is a case in point. I think the problem with the info from Mii Plaza is that it's drawing connections when they don't exist, not giving enough credit to mere coincidences or at least little nods. Even if the Sales Bunny was a distinguished character who appears in both Mii Plaza and Nintendo Badge Arcade, I don't see how anything relevant to Nintendo Badge Arcade or Mii Plaza should get something outside of those two, regardless of ''Mario'' content. Neither are ''Mario'' games; they're ''Nintendo'' games with a lot of ''Mario'' collectibles, not too far from ''Animal Crossing''.

Trying to contact Nintendo is these kinds of matters tend to be a waste of time, starkly contrasting your opinion on these things, since you're just gonna get algorithm-generated responses, so we have to use our own judgement. Also, Nintendo may encourage us to "use our active imaginations" but it's likely generated to everyday fans who can PIDOOMA for all they care, not wikis trying to be a credible source and reporting only the facts while not getting active in fan interpretation (for the most part). {{User:Bazooka Mario/sig}} 15:00, 22 December 2015 (EST)
:What's with the "algorithm" bit? I've had to deal with customer service plenty of times, and I've contacted Nintendo on numerous occasions. If Nintendo's running an automated reply system, they're running one that's leagues better than everyone else. Every question I've had was directly addressed (if not directly answered), and the wiki itself has a couple of examples involving [[Talk:Wario_Land_II#Enemy_names|NOA coming through.]] {{User:Time Turner/sig}}
::The e-mail sounds just like something from an algorithm. I've also seen people contact Nintendo of America before they get informal [[Talk:Yoshi's_Woolly_World#Nintendo_Email|vague automated-sounding]] [[Talk:Toad#Nintendo_Ends_The_Argument|algorithms]] too. And in the past, I've seen people e-mail Nintendo about the more frivolous things like Nana's relationship with Popo or something. Also, right in that same link you provided, there's a point of caution that "Of course, not everything that comes from the costumer<sup>[sic]</sup> service has to be 'canon' (for example, they claimed that there is no Zelda timeline even if the game creators confirmed that)." They might be more helpful in tracking down specific names, but when it comes to identity, not so much. {{User:Bazooka Mario/sig}} 15:45, 22 December 2015 (EST)
:::"No need to get defensive over here and accuse people that they don't have "active imagination"" I wasn't accusing anyone of that. I said since active imaginations aren't good enough. That was clearly poking fun a the wording of the response and pointing out that in the end the active imagination would be speculation. And then that person seemed to think I didn't understand what I myself said. So if pointing out other people misunderstanding something in response to them doing just that is being defensive, then getting defensive seems needed in order to correct you. I posted the email as an interesting insight of an effort. And as Time Turner pointed out, I too have found it really useful to email Nintendo in the past, and I could tell this wasn't an automated response. I omitted the responders real name for sake of privacy, but they did sign it. This is turning into a series of really unnecessary arguments, though, as people seem eager to argue anything they can over this character for some reason. So I've said my say and the proposal outcome is clear. [[User:UhHuhAlrightDaisy|UhHuhAlrightDaisy]] ([[User talk:UhHuhAlrightDaisy|talk]]) 16:05, 22 December 2015 (EST)

== Why is this here? ==
This character has NOTHING to do with the Mario series. [[User:Shadow2|Shadow2]] ([[User talk:Shadow2|talk]]) 20:02, 19 December 2015 (EST)
:[[Nintendo Badge Arcade]]. It has the Mario badges sooo yeah. {{User:Roy Koopa/sig}} 20:04, 19 December 2015 (EST)
:Plus, he's playable in Super Mario Maker. Does that actually bother you? [[User:UhHuhAlrightDaisy|UhHuhAlrightDaisy]] ([[User talk:UhHuhAlrightDaisy|talk]]) 21:23, 19 December 2015 (EST)
::I hardly think either of those are valid reasons. He's the host of a game that gives out little badges from multiple Nintendo series, and we don't have an article for every costume in Mario Maker. [[User:Shadow2|Shadow2]] ([[User talk:Shadow2|talk]]) 02:49, 20 December 2015 (EST)
:::Which gets me thinking....does that mean Nikki from Swapnote will get her own article, considering that Swapnote does use Mario themes? {{User:Baby Luigi/sig}} 15:10, 20 December 2015 (EST)
::::Yeah if I had anything to say about it, the Sales Bunny doesn't need his own article at all. {{User:Tails777/sig}}
We have articles for characters appearing in games like Smash Bros. even though that's jus a crossover game. The wiki has articles for these characters to cover their info in games relating to Mario content, so you seem to be overlooking that the wiki already does this for many characters. [[User:UhHuhAlrightDaisy|UhHuhAlrightDaisy]] ([[User talk:UhHuhAlrightDaisy|talk]]) 16:42, 20 December 2015 (EST)
:As described in [[MarioWiki:Coverage]], there's a difference between a crossover, a guest appearance, and a cameo. The Smash series features more than enough Mario content to be considered a crossover, whereas games like [[NBA Street V3]] and [[SSX on Tour]] feature a much smaller, but still notable, portion of Mario content and are thus relegated to guest appearances. Other games still, such as ''The Legend of Zelda: Link's Awakening'' features such a minute amount of Mario content that it's considered a cameo. The difference between these three is that with a crossover, every element is covered, with a guest appearance, only the game itself is covered, and with a cameo, it's dumped onto the [[List of Mario references in video games]]. I think the easiest way to settle this would be to have a proposal on whether or not [[Nintendo Badge Arcade]] constitutes as a guest appearance. Citing from the policy: "Please note that a Proposal should be made before a game is classified as a "guest appearance", as this is a somewhat tricky distinction and there could easily be disagreement in the community about the extent to which coverage should be granted to any given non-Mario game." {{User:Time Turner/sig}}
::Hm. As mentioned, it's not just Nintendo Badge Arcade now, but also Mario Maker. It isn't clearly covered on the game's page yet, since it will take a while to make a list of all the badges, but there are a ton of Mario badges. And Costume Mario is a playable character in everything but name. So wait, what needs to be proposed? I'm getting lost in all the issues coming up all of the sudden. lol [[User:UhHuhAlrightDaisy|UhHuhAlrightDaisy]] ([[User talk:UhHuhAlrightDaisy|talk]]) 20:28, 20 December 2015 (EST)
::If you're talking about whether it's one of the three, reading the extra details in the differences under the guest appearance section, it sounds more like a crossover than guest or cameo, as I believe there are more Mario badges than any other series in the game. But, if it's something people are gonna make a fuss over, far be it from me to talk someone out of making a proposal. [[User:UhHuhAlrightDaisy|UhHuhAlrightDaisy]] ([[User talk:UhHuhAlrightDaisy|talk]]) 20:32, 20 December 2015 (EST)
:::Just because there's a Costume Mario doesn't necessarily mean they should get an article. Otherwise, we'd have pages for a ton of characters that have nothing to do with Mario. It really depends on whether Nintendo Badge Arcade is a crossover or just a guest appearance/cameo if this article stays. --{{User:SuperYoshiBros/sig}} 17:14, 21 December 2015 (EST)
::::The thing is we '''''do''''' have a ton of pages that have nothing to do with Mario, and this is just one of them. It's always sort of bugged me. [[User:Shadow2|Shadow2]] ([[User talk:Shadow2|talk]]) 17:27, 27 December 2015 (EST)

== Rename to Arcade bunny? ==
In-game in the [https://d3esbfg30x759i.cloudfront.net/ss/WVW69izHKCAE2a5Lwo costume selection screen], the capitalization is Arcade bunny, not Arcade Bunny. Would it be alright to move it to that? For reference, this is the NTSC version.--{{User:UltraMario3000/sig}}
:Yeah, we should. {{User:Bazooka Mario/sig}} 19:14, 18 January 2016 (EST)

== Restore ==

{{talk}}
I noticed pages like [[Nintendog]] and [[Excitebike (character)|Excitebike]] are not merged with [[Assist Trophy]] like the others due to their appearances in other ''Mario''-related media, with the Nintendog's only ''Mario'' appearance outside of ''Smash'' simply being in a [[Nintendogs (microgame)|microgame]] and the Excitebiker's being on a banner in [[Excitebike Arena]] and a [[Mystery Mushroom]] [[Costume Mario|costume]]. So with Arcade Bunny now in ''Smash'', should this page be brought back (with maybe the ''Nintendo Badge Arcade'' content cut down)? {{User:Mario jc/sig}} 02:54, 24 June 2018 (EDT)