Editing MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive/72

{{MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive/Template}}
===Add an abbreviation template to type out full game titles===
{{proposal outcome|passed|8-0|Add template}}
This proposal is about creating a template that it makes it easier to type out full game titles. Although ''The Legend of Zelda'' games generally have longer titles (and Zelda Wiki even has templates for some of their shorter titled games, like ''{{iw|zeldawiki|Hyrule Warriors}}'', {{iw|zeldawiki|Template:HW|here}}), there have still been cases in which some game titles are uncomfortably long, such as ''[[Donkey Kong Country 3: Dixie Kong's Double Trouble!]]'' or ''[[Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars]]'', and while it may seem like not a big deal to some, it would be a small quality-of-life improvement if we could have a template where we input the abbreviation, and the output becomes the game title.

For example, <nowiki>{{a|M&LSS}}</nowiki> would result in ''Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga'' (complete with italics formatting). Meanwhile, <nowiki>{{a|M&LSS|l}}</nowiki> to link to the game, outputting ''[[Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga]]'', although depending on who creates the template, it could be vice versa, like it links by default and <nowiki>{{a|M&LSS|n}}</nowiki> would prevent a link.

Since ''Super Mario'' has several releases, it may get difficult maintaining with all the abbreviations, and there have been cases where two games have shared the same abbreviation. (e.g. [[SMS]] for both ''Mario Sunshine'' and ''Mario Strikers''). In that case, either <nowiki>{{a|SMS|2002}}</nowiki> (with the year of release) or a custom abbreviation (e.g. <nowiki>{{a|SMShine}}</nowiki>) would be needed (personally I'd prefer the latter).

Consider we already have similar templates for Princess Peach and Princess Daisy (i.e. {{tem|Peach}} and {{tem|Daisy}}), and both of their full titles (with "Princess" included) is a lot shorter than the two game titles in the first paragraph.

'''Proposer''': {{User|Super Mario RPG}}<br>
'''Deadline''': <s>January 1, 2025, 23:59 GMT</s> Closed early on December 25, 2024, 23:59 GMT

====Support====
#{{User|Super Mario RPG}} Per.
#{{User|Camwoodstock}} We don't see the harm in this, even if it would admittedly be fairly niche. The only real complaint we have is the lack of an additional parameter for changing the displayed text, so if we need to say something like "in the [[Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door (Nintendo Switch)|remake]]", we have to write that out the old-fashioned way.
#{{User|EvieMaybe}} might make some link-heavy pages lighter!
#{{User|Salmancer}} Words cannot express the relief that my fingers would feel if they never have to type out "Mario & Luigi: Bowser's Inside Story + Bowser Jr.'s Journey" again.
#{{User|Tails777}} Mario already took my example, but it still stands; the amount of times I've had to type out that title (or even the abbreviation for it) was incredibly annoying. Per all.
#{{User|Scrooge200}} Yes, these titles can be a pain to write out in full. Per all.
#{{User|Technetium}} Per all.
#{{User|Sparks}} Per all.

====Oppose====

====Comments====
:{{@|Camwoodstock}} Such a parameter can always be added to the template. [[User:Super Mario RPG|Super Mario RPG]] ([[User talk:Super Mario RPG|talk]]) 18:18, December 18, 2024 (EST)

Salmancer: ''[[Mario & Sonic at the Sochi 2014 Olympic Winter Games]]'' might be the other worst game title I've had to type out. {{User:Mario/sig}} 00:59, December 20, 2024 (EST)
:Damn it, that was gonna be my example! {{User:Tails777/sig}}15:34, December 20, 2024 (EST)

===Stop integrating templates under the names of planets and areas in the ''Super Mario Galaxy'' games===
{{proposal outcome|passed|14-1|Do not put templates underneath names of planets and areas}}
The aims of this proposal is to repeal [[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive/69#Decide how to handle conjectural sections about Super Mario Galaxy planets/areas|this one]] that passed earlier this year. I will reiterate my position here:
<blockquote>The planetary bodies in galaxies do not just "lack" publicly accessible names - they are straight up not supposed to have names. The Shogakukan guidebook for ''Mario Galaxy'' does not give planets name. The game does not give planets name. The instruction booklet does not give planets name. The only "source" that applies discrete names for planets are from the developers and we have no reason to think these were intended to be the planets. These galaxy articles are generally a bit outdated, and I think the mistake in the first place was suggesting that some of the planets have real names "except where otherwise noted." They largely do not. I think it would would healthier to recognize that they are just different sections of a greater whole, much like areas in courses for the earlier 3D games, and apply titles accordingly.</blockquote>
To elaborate on my perspective, I think using dev data to provide names for these planets is completely fine, and I understand the desire to do so. Citing the Prima Games guidebooks for potential names for these areas is fine. That is not what this proposal is about. Rather, integrating the ''templates'' themselves - be it for conjectural or dev data-derived names - underneath the individual headers for each planet, in my view, looks very poor, as you can see here for [[Yoshi Star Galaxy#Planets|Yoshi Star Galaxy]] and [[Honeyhive Galaxy#Planets/Areas|Honeyhive Galaxy]]. They are detractingly eye-catching and break these articles without substantive benefit. I think having a nonintrusive note at the top or bottom of these articles - as was the case before the proposal I link to above passed - is perfectly sufficient and healthier for these articles.

I provide two options:
#'''Support: Do not put conjectural and dev-data name templates beneath the names of individual planets and areas in  the ''Super Mario Galaxy'' games''': This is a full repeal of the proposal I link to above.
#'''Oppose: Change nothing'''

'''Proposer''': {{User|Nintendo101}}<br>
'''Deadline''': <s>January 1, 2025, 23:59 GMT</s> Closed early on December 25, 2024, 23:59 GMT

====Support: Do not put templates underneath the name's of planets and areas====
#{{User|Nintendo101}} Per proposal.
#{{User|1468z}} Per proposal.
#{{User|Waluigi Time}} The previous solution looked a lot nicer. I also agree with Nintendo101 that we should rethink how we approach planet names in general. They don't necessarily "need" names any more than specific portions of levels in other games do.
#{{User|Jdtendo}} I still don't agree with the "planets are not supposed to have names" argument, but I do agree that having templates beneath every section heading is excessive.
#{{User|Camwoodstock}} Per all, especially Waluigi time. The overall assumption that the planets have names unless otherwise stated feels like the consequence of a decision made very, very early on into the wiki, that's just kind of gone unquestioned or unnoticed until very recently. This won't stop that particular case of WikiJank™ completely, but it's a step in the right direction.
#{{User|Sparks}} Per all.
#{{User|EvieMaybe}} if all the names are unofficial, then we only need to say it once. if there's an official name, we can just say "all names are unofficial unless specified" and specify in the one planet that has a name (is there any planets with names even???). having the template on each individual section is both ugly and inefficient
#{{User|Mario}} Yeah, the setup before this was satisfactory. Per Evie, but I also agree with Waluigi Time that we probably don't need to require naming these parts of the level either.
#{{User|Ray Trace}} I always thought assigning these objects meant to be part of the environment conjectural templates has always struck me as odd and I don't know why only Super Mario Galaxy gets singled out out of all games. We don't name the rooms the Mario Party minigames take place in.
#{{User|Tails777}} I was sincerely confused when I saw the templates put back on the various galaxy articles and questioned "Why? It was better beforehand." Per all.
#{{User|Hooded Pitohui}} In the longer-term, WT and Nintendo101 bring up points which ought to be considered. In the shorter term, this would be a beneficial first step to de-cluttering these sections for better readability.
#{{User|Ninja Squid}} Per all.
#{{User|Technetium}} Per Nintendo101, Waluigi Time, and Porple's comment below.
#{{User|MCD}} Per N101, WT and Porple below. I also agree our attitude on what counts as "conjectural" when it comes to naming planets needs a rethink, i.e. it's not conjecture to call the planet the player starts on the "starting planet" because that's just a factual description. (Also, why does [[Starting Planet]] just redirect to a random galaxy? lol)

====Oppose: Keep the templates====
#{{User|Ahemtoday}} I'm opposing this proposal ''as currently slated to be implemented'' — as in, just removing [[Template:Conjecture]] and [[Template:Dev data]] from these sections and leaving it at that. These need to be marked, and I don't feel that an "unless otherwise noted" disclaimer is an elegant way to do that. However. There is a way of accomplishing this that I ''would'' be amenable to: replacing those templates with [[Template:Conjectural]] or a new dev data equivalent to it. This is the same way our glitch pages do it, for exactly the same reason you want to get rid of these templates on the galaxy pages. I think it makes perfect sense to use this convention here as well to solve this problem.

====Comments on the planet template proposal====
I agree that we don't need the repeated templates, and the whole naming situation of the planets is a bit odd. Rather than giving the planets capitalized "names" (e.g. "Starting Planet") and noting them as conjectural, they should just be described in sentence case, at which point it should be somewhat obvious that it's a description and not a "name". For example, section heading "Starting planet" and text "The starting planet has..." You could do a single {{tem|conjecture|2=subsections=yes}} under the "Planets" heading if you really wanted to, but I think if we removed all the inappropriate capitalization then even that wouldn't be necessary. --{{User:Porplemontage/sig}} 20:11, December 19, 2024 (EST)

===Broaden the scope of the <nowiki>{{rewrite}}</nowiki> template and its variations===
{{proposal outcome|failed|1-7|Do not broaden scope}}
With the [[Template talk:Unreferenced#Delete or be more specific|previous proposal]] having passed with being more specific as the most voted, I've come up with a proposal about the possibility to make the {{tem|rewrite}}, {{tem|rewrite-expand}}, and {{tem|rewrite-remove}} templates more specific. As you can see, these templates are missing some smaller text. As such, I am just wondering if there is a possibility to have the smaller text added to the <nowiki>{{rewrite}}</nowiki>, <nowiki>{{rewrite-expand}}</nowiki>, and <nowiki>{{rewrite-remove}}</nowiki> templates.

First of all, the <nowiki>{{rewrite}}</nowiki> template currently reads as follows:
----
<pre>
<div class="notice-template maintenance" style="background:#9CF;border:1px solid #000">
It has been requested that this {{#if:{{{section|}}}|section|article}} be '''rewritten'''. {{#if:{{{reason|{{{1|}}}}}}|'''Reason:''' {{{reason|{{{1}}}}}}|<includeonly>{{#switch:{{NAMESPACE}}||Gallery=[[Category:Articles with incomplete maintenance tags]]}}</includeonly>}}{{#if:{{{date|{{{2|}}}}}}|<nowiki/> (tagged on {{{date|{{{2}}}}}})}}
</div>
</pre>

<div class="notice-template maintenance" style="background:#9CF;border:1px solid #000">
It has been requested that this article be '''rewritten'''.
</div>
----
However, once the proposal passes, the <nowiki>{{rewrite}}</nowiki> template will read as follows:
----
<pre>
<div class="notice-template maintenance" style="background:#9CF;border:1px solid #000">
It has been requested that this {{#if:{{{section|}}}|section|article}} be '''rewritten'''{{#if:{{{reason|{{{1|}}}}}}|<nowiki/> for the following reason(s): {{{reason|{{{1}}}}}}|.<includeonly>{{#switch:{{NAMESPACE}}||Gallery=[[Category:Articles with incomplete maintenance tags]]}}</includeonly>}}{{#if:{{{date|{{{2|}}}}}}|<nowiki/> (tagged on {{{date|{{{2}}}}}})}}<br><small>Please review the [[MarioWiki:Manual of Style|Manual of Style]] and [[MarioWiki:Good writing|good writing standards]] and help {{plain link|{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit}}|improve this {{#if:{{{section|}}}|section|article}}}}.</small>
</div>
</pre>

<div class="notice-template maintenance" style="background:#9CF;border:1px solid #000">
It has been requested that this article be '''rewritten''' for the following reason(s): <reason(s)>.<br><small>Please review the [[MarioWiki:Manual of Style|Manual of Style]] and [[MarioWiki:Good writing|good writing standards]] and help {{plain link|{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit}}|improve this article}}.</small>
</div>
----
And another thing—the <nowiki>{{rewrite-expand}}</nowiki> template currently reads as follows:
----
<pre>
<div class="notice-template maintenance" style="background:#9CF;border:1px solid #000">
It has been requested that this {{#if:{{{section|}}}|section|article}} be '''rewritten''' and '''expanded''' to include more information. {{#if:{{{reason|{{{1|}}}}}}|'''Reason:''' {{{reason|{{{1}}}}}}|<includeonly>{{#switch:{{NAMESPACE}}||Gallery=[[Category:Articles with incomplete maintenance tags]]}}</includeonly>}}{{#if:{{{date|{{{2|}}}}}}|<nowiki/> (tagged on {{{date|{{{2}}}}}})}}
</div>
</pre>

<div class="notice-template maintenance" style="background:#9CF;border:1px solid #000">
It has been requested that this article be '''rewritten''' and '''expanded''' to include more information.
</div>
----
However, once this proposal passes, the <nowiki>{{rewrite-expand}}</nowiki> will read as follows:
----
<pre>
<div class="notice-template maintenance" style="background:#9CF;border:1px solid #000">
It has been requested that this {{#if:{{{section|}}}|section|article}} be '''rewritten''' and '''expanded''' to include more information.{{#if:{{{reason|{{{1|}}}}}}|<nowiki/> for the following reason(s): {{{reason|{{{1}}}}}}|.<includeonly>{{#switch:{{NAMESPACE}}||Gallery=[[Category:Articles with incomplete maintenance tags]]}}</includeonly>}}{{#if:{{{date|{{{2|}}}}}}|<nowiki/> (tagged on {{{date|{{{2}}}}}})}}<br><small>Please review the [[MarioWiki:Manual of Style|Manual of Style]] and [[MarioWiki:Good writing|good writing standards]] and help {{plain link|{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit}}|improve this {{#if:{{{section|}}}|section|article}}}} by filling in the missing details.</small>
</div>
</pre>

<div class="notice-template maintenance" style="background:#9CF;border:1px solid #000">
It has been requested that this article be '''rewritten''' and '''expanded''' to include more information for the following reason(s): <reason(s)>.<br><small>Please review the [[MarioWiki:Manual of Style|Manual of Style]] and [[MarioWiki:Good writing|good writing standards]] and help {{plain link|{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit}}|improve this article}} by filling in the missing details.</small>
</div>
----
Lastly, the <nowiki>{{rewrite-remove}}</nowiki> currently reads as follows:
----
<pre>
<div class="notice-template maintenance" style="background:#9CF;border:1px solid #000">
It has been requested that this {{#if:{{{section|}}}|section|article}} be '''rewritten''' to have <u>{{{content|{{{1|content<includeonly>{{#switch:{{NAMESPACE}}||Gallery=[[Category:Articles with incomplete maintenance tags]]}}</includeonly>}}}}}}</u> '''removed''' for the following reason(s): {{{reason|{{{2|???<includeonly>{{#switch:{{NAMESPACE}}||Gallery=[[Category:Articles with incomplete maintenance tags]]}}</includeonly>}}}}}}{{#if:{{{date|{{{3|}}}}}}|<nowiki/> (tagged on {{{date|{{{3}}}}}})}}
</div>
</pre>

<div class="notice-template maintenance" style="background:#9CF;border:1px solid #000">
It has been requested that this article be '''rewritten''' to have <u>content</u> '''removed''' for the following reason(s): ???
</div>
----
However, once this proposal passes, the <nowiki>{{rewrite-remove}}</nowiki> will read as follows:
----
<pre>
<div class="notice-template maintenance" style="background:#9CF;border:1px solid #000">
It has been requested that this {{#if:{{{section|}}}|section|article}} be '''rewritten''' to have {{#if:{{{content|{{{1|}}}}}}|<u>{{{content|{{{1}}}}}}</u>|content}} '''removed'''{{#if:{{{reason|{{{2|}}}}}}|<nowiki/> for the following reason(s):{{{reason|{{{2}}}}}}|.<includeonly>{{#switch:{{NAMESPACE}}||Gallery=[[Category:Articles with incomplete maintenance tags]]}}</includeonly>}}{{#if:{{{date|{{{3|}}}}}}|<nowiki/> (tagged on {{{date|{{{3}}}}}})}}<br><small>Please review the [[MarioWiki:Manual of Style|Manual of Style]] and [[MarioWiki:Good writing|good writing standards]] and help {{plain link|{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit}}|improve this {{#if:{{{section|}}}|section|article}}}} by removing the unnecessary details.</small>
</div>
</pre>

<div class="notice-template maintenance" style="background:#9CF;border:1px solid #000">
It has been requested that this article be '''rewritten''' to have content '''removed''' for the following reason(s): <reason(s)>.<br><small>Please review the [[MarioWiki:Manual of Style|Manual of Style]] and [[MarioWiki:Good writing|good writing standards]] and help {{plain link|{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit}}|improve this article}} by removing the unnecessary details.</small>
</div>
----
That will be a perfect idea to make the <nowiki>{{rewrite}}</nowiki> template and its variations as more specific as the {{tem|media missing}} and {{tem|unreferenced}} templates. That way, we'll be able to add smaller text to the remaining [[:Category:Notice templates|notice templates]] in the future.

'''Proposer''': {{User|GuntherBayBeee}}<br>
'''Deadline''': <s>December 23, 2024, 23:59 GMT</s> Extended to December 30, 2024, 23:59 GMT

====Support====
#{{User|GuntherBayBeee}} Per proposal

====Oppose====
#{{User|Altendo}} As far as I can tell, the proposal that was linked added parameters that allowed what was supposed to be referenced to be referenced. This one simply adds a subtitle to the bottom of each template. "Be more specific" does not mean saying general information and helpful links, but rather exactly what needs to be done; in terms of that, the existing templates not only all already have parameters, but [[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive/61#Discourage drive-by templating|filling them out is enforced]]. As [[User:Nightwicked Bowser|Nightwicked Bowser]] said, "Be more specific - Similar to [[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive/61#Discourage drive-by templating|this proposal]], what exactly needs references must be specified in the template when putting it in the article. A parameter for this will still need to be added." This only adds a subtitle and does not make this "more specific". As for the changes, this is actually harmful in some way, as the <nowiki>(tagged on {{{date|{{{3}}}}}})</nowiki> tag will be added to the subtitle, rather than the main body, which could make it more confusing in my opinion. Feel free to update this and add in what "more specific" actually means, or just change this to "add subtitles" and change the location of <nowiki>(tagged on {{{date|{{{3}}}}}})</nowiki> to the main body, but until then, my vote is staying here.
#{{User|Mario}} Best to keep things simple with these improvement templates.
#{{User|Technetium}} Per Mario.
#{{User|Sparks}} Per all.
#{{User|Power Flotzo}} Yeah, this just feels like change for the sake of change. Per everyone.
#{{User|Camwoodstock}} Per all, especially Mario. We should try and keep these maintenance templates as simple as possible.
#{{User|BBQ Turtle}} Per all.

====Comments====

Here's how I would fix some things:

First of all, the <nowiki>{{rewrite}}</nowiki> template currently reads as follows:
----
<pre>
<div class="notice-template maintenance" style="background:#9CF;border:1px solid #000">
It has been requested that this {{#if:{{{section|}}}|section|article}} be '''rewritten'''. {{#if:{{{reason|{{{1|}}}}}}|'''Reason:''' {{{reason|{{{1}}}}}}|<includeonly>{{#switch:{{NAMESPACE}}||Gallery=[[Category:Articles with incomplete maintenance tags]]}}</includeonly>}}{{#if:{{{date|{{{2|}}}}}}|<nowiki/> (tagged on {{{date|{{{2}}}}}})}}
</div>
</pre>

<div class="notice-template maintenance" style="background:#9CF;border:1px solid #000">
It has been requested that this article be '''rewritten'''.
</div>
----
However, once the proposal passes, the <nowiki>{{rewrite}}</nowiki> template will read as follows:
----
<pre>
<div class="notice-template maintenance" style="background:#9CF;border:1px solid #000">
It has been requested that this {{#if:{{{section|}}}|section|article}} be '''rewritten'''{{#if:{{{reason|{{{1|}}}}}}|<nowiki/> for the following reason(s): {{{reason|{{{1}}}}}}|.<includeonly>{{#switch:{{NAMESPACE}}||Gallery=[[Category:Articles with incomplete maintenance tags]]}}</includeonly>}}{{#if:{{{date|{{{2|}}}}}}|<nowiki/> (tagged on {{{date|{{{2}}}}}})}}<br><small>Please review the [[MarioWiki:Manual of Style|Manual of Style]] and [[MarioWiki:Good writing|good writing standards]] and help {{plain link|{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit}}|improve this {{#if:{{{section|}}}|section|article}}}}.</small>
</div>
</pre>

<div class="notice-template maintenance" style="background:#9CF;border:1px solid #000">
It has been requested that this article be '''rewritten''' for the following reasons:<br><small>Please review the [[MarioWiki:Manual of Style|Manual of Style]] and [[MarioWiki:Good writing|good writing standards]] and help {{plain link|{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit}}|improve this article}}.</small>
</div>
----
And another thing—the <nowiki>{{rewrite-expand}}</nowiki> template currently reads as follows:
----
<pre>
<div class="notice-template maintenance" style="background:#9CF;border:1px solid #000">
It has been requested that this {{#if:{{{section|}}}|section|article}} be '''rewritten''' and '''expanded''' to include more information. {{#if:{{{reason|{{{1|}}}}}}|'''Reason:''' {{{reason|{{{1}}}}}}|<includeonly>{{#switch:{{NAMESPACE}}||Gallery=[[Category:Articles with incomplete maintenance tags]]}}</includeonly>}}{{#if:{{{date|{{{2|}}}}}}|<nowiki/> (tagged on {{{date|{{{2}}}}}})}}
</div>
</pre>

<div class="notice-template maintenance" style="background:#9CF;border:1px solid #000">
It has been requested that this article be '''rewritten''' and '''expanded''' to include more information.
</div>
----
However, once this proposal passes, the <nowiki>{{rewrite-expand}}</nowiki> will read as follows:
----
<pre>
<div class="notice-template maintenance" style="background:#9CF;border:1px solid #000">
It has been requested that this {{#if:{{{section|}}}|section|article}} be '''rewritten''' and '''expanded''' to include more information{{#if:{{{reason|{{{1|}}}}}}|<nowiki/> for the following reason(s): {{{reason|{{{1}}}}}}|.<includeonly>{{#switch:{{NAMESPACE}}||Gallery=[[Category:Articles with incomplete maintenance tags]]}}</includeonly>}}{{#if:{{{date|{{{2|}}}}}}|<nowiki/> (tagged on {{{date|{{{2}}}}}})}}<br><small>Please review the [[MarioWiki:Manual of Style|Manual of Style]] and [[MarioWiki:Good writing|good writing standards]] and help {{plain link|{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit}}|improve this {{#if:{{{section|}}}|section|article}}}} by filling in the missing details.</small>
</div>
</pre>

<div class="notice-template maintenance" style="background:#9CF;border:1px solid #000">
It has been requested that this article be '''rewritten''' and '''expanded''' to include more information for the following reasons:<br><small>Please review the [[MarioWiki:Manual of Style|Manual of Style]] and [[MarioWiki:Good writing|good writing standards]] and help {{plain link|{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit}}|improve this article}} by filling in the missing details.</small>
</div>
----
Lastly, the <nowiki>{{rewrite-remove}}</nowiki> currently reads as follows:
----
<pre>
<div class="notice-template maintenance" style="background:#9CF;border:1px solid #000">
It has been requested that this {{#if:{{{section|}}}|section|article}} be '''rewritten''' to have <u>{{{content|{{{1|content<includeonly>{{#switch:{{NAMESPACE}}||Gallery=[[Category:Articles with incomplete maintenance tags]]}}</includeonly>}}}}}}</u> '''removed''' for the following reason(s): {{{reason|{{{2|???<includeonly>{{#switch:{{NAMESPACE}}||Gallery=[[Category:Articles with incomplete maintenance tags]]}}</includeonly>}}}}}}{{#if:{{{date|{{{3|}}}}}}|<nowiki/> (tagged on {{{date|{{{3}}}}}})}}
</div>
</pre>

<div class="notice-template maintenance" style="background:#9CF;border:1px solid #000">
It has been requested that this article be '''rewritten''' to have <u>content</u> '''removed''' for the following reason(s): ???
</div>
----
However, once this proposal passes, the <nowiki>{{rewrite-remove}}</nowiki> will read as follows:
----
<pre>
<div class="notice-template maintenance" style="background:#9CF;border:1px solid #000">
It has been requested that this {{#if:{{{section|}}}|section|article}} be '''rewritten''' to have {{#if:{{{content|{{{1|}}}}}}|<u>{{{content|{{{1}}}}}}</u>|content}} '''removed''' {{#if:{{{reason|{{{2|}}}}}}|<nowiki/> for the following reasons:{{{reason|{{{2}}}}}}|.<includeonly>{{#switch:{{NAMESPACE}}||Gallery=[[Category:Articles with incomplete maintenance tags]]}}</includeonly>}}{{#if:{{{date|{{{3|}}}}}}|<nowiki/> (tagged on {{{date|{{{3}}}}}})}}<br><small>Please review the [[MarioWiki:Manual of Style|Manual of Style]] and [[MarioWiki:Good writing|good writing standards]] and help {{plain link|{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit}}|improve this {{#if:{{{section|}}}|section|article}}}} by removing the unnecessary details.</small>
</div>
</pre>

<div class="notice-template maintenance" style="background:#9CF;border:1px solid #000">
It has been requested that this article be '''rewritten''' to have content '''removed''' for the following reason(s):<br><small>Please review the [[MarioWiki:Manual of Style|Manual of Style]] and [[MarioWiki:Good writing|good writing standards]] and help {{plain link|{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit}}|improve this article}} by removing the unnecessary details.</small>
</div>

This should fix some things, and I also recommend you change the title or at least context of this proposal. If so, then I might change my vote. [[User:Altendo|Al]][[User talk:Altendo|ten]][[Special:Contributions/Altendo|do]] 19:58, December 9, 2024 (EST)
:I {{plain link|https://www.mariowiki.com/index.php?title=MarioWiki:Proposals&diff=prev&oldid=4457576|fixed this problem}} for you. How does it look? {{User:GuntherBayBeee/sig}} 09:40, December 10, 2024 (EST)

===Create a template to use names consistently===
{{proposal outcome|canceled}}
This proposal is aiming to create a template called {{fake link|Template:T}} (short for "term"). It's similar in concept (thought not necessarily design) to {{iw|zeldawiki|Template:Term|Zelda Wiki's Term template}}, but to a lesser extent. Allow me to explain why I think such a template would benefit the site.

Let's take [[Princess Peach]] as an example. She has been known as Princess Toadstool to anglophones in games before {{a|SM64}}. Some people editing here, especially newcomers, may not immediately know that the [[MarioWiki:Naming|Naming policy]] outlines that this website uses names depending on the subject's name within the media or supplementary material. We do not replace all instances of a name with the current one. But there's one game before ''Super Mario 64'' where "Toadstool" is actually named Peach, ''Yoshi's Safari'', so it could seem like a bit of a jump to read about "Toadstool" and then "Peach" for one paragraph, and then back to "Toadstool" again.

Some of the games call her Princess, like {{a|SMK}}, which makes it more confusing. The source of [[History of Princess Peach]] acknowledges this and even has a editor notice explaining that "Princess" is her name in ''Super Mario Kart'':

<nowiki>Princess<!--This is what the game titles her, so don't change it.--> is a playable character in ''[[Super Mario Kart]]''. When controlled by the CPU, Princess can use [[Poison Mushroom]]s to shrink the other drivers.</nowiki>

So how the term template would work is that it would insert one of the subject's common names: we'll use Peach in this example, followed by the game abbreviation to replace instances of "Princess" within the article. Basically, Template:T working in conjunction with Template:A. So with that, we'd add <nowiki>{{t|Peach|SMK}}</nowiki> in place of "Princess":

<nowiki>{{t|Peach|SMK}} is a playable character in ''[[Super Mario Kart]]''. When controlled by the CPU, {{t|Peach|SMK}} can use [[Poison Mushroom]]s to shrink the other drivers.</nowiki>

With how big the ''Super Mario'' franchise is, it can be difficult ensure accuracy with subject names all over the wiki. And it could arguably get more confusing with capitalized or lowercase names, like [[Super Mushroom]] is titled in {{a|TSMBM}} as red mushroom, in lowercase. It specifies that on the article, but if the name is used elsewhere, it may not be as obvious, so naming consistency can be even harder if we don't have an immediate reference of what "red mushroom" is (or how it's spelled) if we're to mention it on the [[Training Course]] article.

Subjects are renamed over time, like Banzai Bills used to be Bomber Bills, and newer or alternate names can be added to Template:T (or a list sub-template) over time. '''However''', the template should be used within reason, so for example, we wouldn't add "Mario" to Template:T for most of his appearances because that's obviously his name used in those appearances. Meanwhile, subjects with naming discrepancies between appearances (e.g. Star, Starman, and Super Star) could allow for more flexibility on which name is input in Template:T, before the abbreviation. That would include Peach in ''Yoshi's Safari'', so either <nowiki>{{t|Peach|YSafari}}</nowiki> (YSafari is stored as an abbreviation already) or <nowiki>{{t|Toadstool|YSafari}}</nowiki> would be acceptable. For ''Super Mario Bros. Super Show!'', both <nowiki>{{t|Bowser|TSMBSS}}</nowiki> and <nowiki>{{t|King Koopa|TSMBSS}}</nowiki> would be acceptable to use.

It's difficult to know the fine line, and some further decisions or clarifications may have to be done along the way if this proposal passes. But ultimately, I think this will help editors along the way for subjects with naming discrepancies and not having to open tabs to refer to the article name to find the name used for that appearance.

'''Proposer''': {{User|Super Mario RPG}}<br>
'''Deadline''': January 13, 2025, 23:59 GMT

====Support====
#{{User|Super Mario RPG}} Per.

====Oppose====
#{{User|Camwoodstock}} Personally, we feel like this is made widely redundant by just... double-checking the names before writing them down. If a rookie editor messes up and calls Princess Peach "Princess Peach" in the article for a game where she was called Princess Toadstool, it's fairly easy to fix that. In addition, we fear this might cause an even more obnoxious issue of rookie editors instead leaving these templates in the article body, making editing the pages annoying until someone else manually replaces the term. We don't really see what the use is for a template that, by and large, is only really useful for the preview function, when at the end of the day, you could just refer to a game's article and quickly determine from there what name to use.
#{{User|Hewer}} I don't feel like this would be particularly helpful to new users, if anything unnecessary templates like this could cause ''more'' confusion and feel unintuitive. This doesn't feel like solving the problem of having to remember which name to use so much as swapping it for a problem of having to remember how to use the template.
#{{User|Ahemtoday}} Per Hewer — not to mention a problem of remembering which subjects have data in the template to begin with. All those further decisions and clarifications are going to have to be looked up anyway, defeating the point. And that's ''if'' the system is working as intended — to be blunt, the scope of these templates would have to be so large that I expect them to be poorly maintained.

====Comments====
{{@|Camwoodstock}} I understand, but I do think it's convenient like when adding abbreviations. Is it "Klaptrap" or "KlapTrap" or "Klap Trap"? The template can be used to figure that part out and help with consistency, and if one sees the consistent output, they can fix the names used in Template:T accordingly. It won't be that hard to use, it may just take time getting used to, and it won't apply to the obvious like Mario in most of his appearances. I didn't say it'd be enforced, just like how Template:A isn't enforced (i.e. it's there for people who want to use it while editing, though I know someone who prefers not to use it, as a choice of personal preference). [[User:Super Mario RPG|Super Mario RPG]] ([[User talk:Super Mario RPG|talk]]) 18:26, December 30, 2024 (EST)

===Decide how to handle nameless subjects===
{{proposal outcome|canceled}}
It's been five days since the [[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive/72#Stop integrating templates under the names of planets and areas in the Super Mario Galaxy games|last proposal]] had passed, and I never opposed it. Something tells me that the areas in galaxies from the ''Super Mario Galaxy'' games are nameless, with the titles of subsections being informal descriptors unless otherwise noted. Likewise, take ''[[Fréquence Kong]]'' for example; this skit aired in France and not in any other regions. I humbly suggest that there's a possibility to decide how to handle nameless subjects with three options:

;Option 1: Create the <code><nowiki>{{</nowiki>{{fake link|informal descriptor|Template:Informal descriptor}}<nowiki>}}</nowiki></code> and <code><nowiki>{{</nowiki>{{fake link|descriptor|Template:Descriptor}}<nowiki>}}</nowiki></code> templates.
;Option 2: Repurpose the {{tem|conjecture}}, {{tem|another language}}, {{tem|dev data}}, and {{tem|derivation}} templates.
;Option 3: Do nothing

Here's what happens when option 1 passes.

First off, the <code><nowiki>{{informal descriptor}}</nowiki></code> template. This template will read as follows:

<pre>
<div class="notice-template maintenance show" style="background:#FFF7F7">
The {{#if:{{{subsections|}}}|titles of the following subsections are '''''[[MarioWiki:Naming|informal descriptors]]''''' unless otherwise noted|title of this {{#if:{{{section|}}}|section|article}} is an '''''[[MarioWiki:Naming|informal descriptor]]'''''}}. {{#if:{{{subsections|}}}|Each|The}} {{#if:{{{section|{{{subsections|}}}}}}|section|article}}'s subject is nameless, but it has been given a fitting title by the editors.
</div>
</pre>

<div class="notice-template maintenance show" style="background:#FFF7F7">
The title of this article is an '''''[[MarioWiki:Naming|informal descriptor]]'''''. The article's subject is nameless, but it has been given a fitting title by the editors.
</div>

Using <code><nowiki>{{informal descriptor|section=yes}}</nowiki></code> will result in the following:

<div class="notice-template maintenance show" style="background:#FFF7F7">
The title of this section is an '''''[[MarioWiki:Naming|informal descriptor]]'''''. The section's subject is nameless, but it has been given a fitting title by the editors.
</div>

Using <code><nowiki>{{informal descriptor|subsections=yes}}</nowiki></code> will result in the following:

<div class="notice-template maintenance show" style="background:#FFF7F7">
The titles of the following subsections are '''''[[MarioWiki:Naming|informal descriptors]]''''' unless otherwise noted. Each section's subject is nameless, but it has been given a fitting title by the editors.
</div>

Next off, the <code><nowiki>{{descriptor}}</nowiki></code> template. This template will read as follows:

<pre>
{{#if:{{{1|}}}|{{hover|1={{{1}}}|2={{#if:{{{2|}}}|Informal descriptor for {{{2}}}|This name is an informal descriptor.}}}}|<sup style="font-weight:normal;font-style:normal">&#91;[[MarioWiki:Naming|''informal descriptor'']]&#93;</sup>}}
</pre>

<sup style="font-weight:normal;font-style:normal">&#91;[[MarioWiki:Naming|''informal descriptor'']]&#93;</sup>

Using <code><nowiki>{{descriptor|Starting planet}}</nowiki></code> will result in this:
:{{hover|Starting planet|This name is an informal descriptor.}}

Using <code><nowiki>{{descriptor|Starting planet|the planet}}</nowiki></code> will result in this:
:{{hover|Starting planet|Informal descriptor for the planet}}

Now we move onto what happens if option 2 passes. The source of the <nowiki>{{conjecture}}</nowiki> template will read as follows:

<pre>
<div class="notice-template maintenance show" style="background:#FFF7F7">
The {{#if:{{{subsections|}}}|titles of the following subsections are|title of this {{#if:{{{section|}}}|section|article}} is}} '''''[[MarioWiki:Conjectural names|conjectural]]'''''{{#if:{{{informal_descriptor|}}}|, but {{#if:{{{subsections|}}}|they are|it is}} also {{#if:{{{subsections|}}}|<u>informal descriptors</u>|an <u>informal descriptor</u>}}}}{{#if:{{{subsections|}}}|, unless otherwise noted}}{{#if:{{{part|}}}|<nowiki/> for '''a part''' of its content|<nowiki/>; {{#if:{{{informal_descriptor|}}}|{{#if:{{{subsections|}}}|each|the}} {{#if:{{{section|{{{subsections|}}}}}}|section|article}}'s subject is nameless|an official name for {{#if:{{{subsections|}}}|each|the}} {{#if:{{{section|{{{subsections|}}}}}}|section|article}}'s subject has not been found}}, so it has been given a fitting title by the editors}}.{{#if:{{{informal_descriptor|}}}||<nowiki/> If an [[MarioWiki:Naming#Acceptable sources for naming|acceptable]] name is found{{#if:{{{part|}}}|<nowiki/> for the currently unnamed portion of content}}{{#if:{{{subsections|}}}|<nowiki/> for a given section}}, then {{#if:{{{part|}}}|it may need to be split into a new article|{{#if:{{{subsections|}}}|that|the}} {{#if:{{{section|{{{subsections|}}}}}}|section|article}} should be {{#if:{{{section|{{{subsections|}}}}}}|changed|moved}} to the new title}}.
</div>
</pre>

For example, using the <code>informal_descriptor</code> parameter on the <nowiki>{{conjecture}}</nowiki> template will result in this:

<div class="notice-template maintenance show" style="background:#FFF7F7">
The title of this article is '''''[[MarioWiki:Conjectural names|conjectural]]''''', but it is also an <u>informal descriptor</u>; the article's subject is nameless, so it has been given a fitting title by the editors.
</div>

The source for the <nowiki>{{another language}}</nowiki> template will read as follows:

<pre>
<div class="notice-template maintenance show" style="background:#F5F5F5">
The {{#if:{{{subsections|}}}|titles of the following subsections are|title of this {{#if:{{{section|}}}|section|article}} is}} official, but {{#if:{{{subsections|}}}|they come|it comes}} from a{{#rmatch:{{{1}}}|^[AEIOU]|n}} '''{{{1|non-English}}} source'''{{#if:{{{informal_descriptor|}}}|, although {{#if:{{{subsections|}}}|they are|it is}} also {{#if:{{{subsections|}}}|<u>informal descriptors</u>|an <u>informal descriptor</u>}}}}{{#if:{{{subsections|}}}|, unless otherwise noted}}.{{#if:{{{informal_descriptor|}}}||<nowiki/> If an [[MarioWiki:Naming#Acceptable sources for naming|acceptable]] English name is found{{#if:{{{subsections|}}}|<nowiki/> for a given section}}, then {{#if:{{{subsections|}}}|that|the}} {{#if:{{{section|{{{subsections|}}}}}}|section|article}} should be {{#if:{{{section|{{{subsections|}}}}}}|changed|moved}} to the new title.}}
</div>
</pre>

For example, typing <code>{{tem|another language|French|informal_descriptor<nowiki>=</nowiki>yes}}</code> will result in this:

<div class="notice-template maintenance show" style="background:#F5F5F5">
The title of this article is official, but it comes from a '''French source''', although it is also an <u>informal descriptor</u>.
</div>

The source of the <nowiki>{{dev data}}</nowiki> will read as follows:

<pre>
<div class="notice-template maintenance show" style="background:#F5F5F5">
The {{#if:{{{subsections|}}}|titles of the following subsections are|title of this {{#if:{{{section|}}}|section|article}} is}} from an official source, but {{#if:{{{subsections|}}}|they are|it is}} based on {{#if:{{{1|}}}|'''{{{1}}}'''|'''development data''' such as an internal filename}}{{#if:{{{informal_descriptor|}}}|, although {{#if:{{{subsections|}}}|they are|it is}} also {{#if:{{{subsections|}}}|<u>informal descriptors</u>|an <u>informal descriptor</u>}}}}{{#if:{{{subsections|}}}|, unless otherwise noted}}.{{#if:{{{informal_descriptor|}}}||<nowiki/> If an [[MarioWiki:Naming#Acceptable sources for naming|acceptable]] public name is found{{#if:{{{subsections|}}}|<nowiki/> for a given section}}, then {{#if:{{{subsections|}}}|that|the}} {{#if:{{{section|{{{subsections|}}}}}}|section|article}} should be {{#if:{{{section|{{{subsections|}}}}}}|changed|moved}} to the new title.}}
</div>
</pre>

For example, using the <code>informal_descriptor</code> parameter on the <nowiki>{{dev data}}</nowiki> template will result in this:

<div class="notice-template maintenance show" style="background:#F5F5F5">
The title of this article is from an official source, but it is based on '''development data''' such as an internal filename, although it is also an <u>informal descriptor</u>.
</div>

The source of the <nowiki>{{derivation}}</nowiki> template will read as follows:

<pre>
<div class="notice-template maintenance show" style="background:#FFF7F7">
The {{#if:{{{subsections|}}}|titles of the following subsections are|title of this {{#if:{{{section|}}}|section|article}} is}} {{#if:{{{informal_descriptor|}}}|{{#if:{{{subsections|}}}|<u>informal descriptors</u>|an <u>informal descriptor</u>}}|<u>unofficial</u>}} and {{#if:{{{subsections|}}}|have|has}} been '''''[[MarioWiki:Naming#Derived names|derived]]''''' by {{{1|combining English names based on established naming schemes, non-English names, and/or development data}}}{{#if:{{{subsections|}}}|, unless otherwise noted}}.{{#if:{{{informal_descriptor|}}}||<nowiki/> If an official English name is found{{#if:{{{subsections|}}}|<nowiki/> for a given section}} that differs from the current name, then {{#if:{{{subsections|}}}|that|the}} {{#if:{{{section|{{{subsections|}}}}}}|section|article}} should be {{#if:{{{section|{{{subsections|}}}}}}|changed|moved}} to the new title.}}
</div>
</pre>

For example, using the <code>informal_descriptor</code> parameter on the <nowiki>{{derivation}}</nowiki> template will result in this:

<div class="notice-template maintenance show" style="background:#FFF7F7">
The title of this article is an <u>informal descriptor</u> and has been '''''[[MarioWiki:Naming#Derived names|derived]]''''' by combining English names based on established naming schemes, non-English names, and/or development data.
</div>

It's important to know that informal descriptors are what we know, and it's true that we will decide how to handle them once this proposal passes.

'''Proposer''': {{User|GuntherBayBeee}}<br>
'''Deadline''': January 13, 2025, 23:59 GMT

====Option 1: Create the templates====
#{{User|GuntherBayBeee}} My primary choice

====Option 2: Repurpose the title notices====
#{{User|GuntherBayBeee}} My secondary choice

====Option 3: Do nothing====
#{{user|Ahemtoday}} Having a special name and template for informal descriptors is counterproductive because it makes them look ''more'' like names, not less. If we're going with the idea that the planets do not have proper names and we are simply describing them, that has to be accomplished through the way we write the articles and not through notice boxes. I bring up the planets specifically because I... don't really think there's any other situation on this wiki where this has ever been an issue. The only other example you bring up is ''[[Frequence Kong]]'', and I do not see how that is an informal descriptor when it is just the French title.
#{{User|Arend}} Honestly, this whole proposal is a bit confusing. '''''First''''', do we really need to introduce the term "informal descriptor"? Aren't conjectural article titles ''already'' informal descriptors? "Informal" means "unofficial", after all, while "conjectural" means "speculative", which already practically means it's unofficial. If so, ''why do we need this'', and if not, ''what IS an "informal descriptor", then''? '''''Second''''', regardless of choosing Option 1 or 2, if this is basically a way to put a notice template under the Galaxy planet names, isn't this basically a repeal of a repeal but using a different term that may or may not mean the same thing as "conjectural"? '''''Third''''', the proposed wording for the affected templates for Option 2 sound a bit odd: "The title of this article is conjectural, '''but''' it is also an informal descriptor" is weird because, as I already stated, a conjectural title may ''already'' be an informal descriptor, because of the "informal" = "unofficial" = "speculative" = "conjectural" thing I stated earlier; "The title of this article is official, but it comes from a French source, '''although''' it is also an informal descriptor" could potentially be oxymoronic because nearly all titles with the {{tem|another language}} template already use the official title ''untranslated'', therefor being impossible to be informal a.k.a. unofficial, and when they ''are'' unofficially translated, they may be more fit to use {{tem|derivation}} anyway; and "The title of this article is from an official source, but it is based on development data such as an internal filename, '''although''' it is also an informal descriptor" is either oxymoronic or synonymous depending on if the title is literally taken from an official filename, or derived from one. Either way, the inclusion of these templates already implies an informal ''English'' descriptor so it's really confusing why words like "but" or "although" are chosen when "and" or "therefore" may fit better. '''''Fourth''''', why is Option B to '''repurpose''' the {{tem|conjecture}}, {{tem|another language}}, {{tem|dev data}}, and {{tem|derivation}} templates, when all that's being changed is that an option is being added that clarifies that the article titles are "informal descriptors"? "Repurpose" means that the templates are to be adapted for an entirely ''different'' purpose, yet from what I can tell, all these templates retain their original purpose if Option 2 wins. '''''All in all''''' (tl;dr), I honestly don't think these changes are needed since "informal" already means "unofficial" which we have plenty of templates for, and that this proposal is a bit confusing.
#{{User|Hewer}} There's no such thing as "nameless" article subjects, they're either officially named or conjecturally named. (The planets from Galaxy are different as they aren't article subjects - one of the points from that passed proposal was that they are just parts of a level, not really individual subjects in their own right.) I have no idea what the distinction is between "conjectural" and "informal descriptor", the proposal doesn't really explain (in fact, it implies that even official names can be "informal descriptors", whatever that means, if they're from another language, even though that's [[Template:Another language]]'s job). This is a pointless template for a pointless distinction. There's also the fact that this proposal seems to be another attempt to stuff the galaxy articles with redundant notice templates, which was just repealed for a reason.
#{{User|Nintendo101}} I think this idea is technocratic. Not every "type" of moniker benefits from having a template. As stated by others, informal descriptors are not names. While assume this is incidental, this proposal sort of undermines the point of that ''Super Mario Galaxy'' proposal that passed recently: the issue wasn't the ''type'' of templates. The issue was that the templates were unattractive and detracted from those articles without substantive benefit. Simply replacing those templates with ''new'' one simply recreates the problem.
#{{User|Camwoodstock}} Per all, especially Nintendo101; the issue with the Galaxy articles wasn't just the templates being a misnomer, it was the fact that they were being used under pretenses that probably weren't accurate in the first place (namely, the idea that the majority of planets have official names, which does not seem to be the case) and were, for lack of a better term, an incredibly intrusive eyesore. The best way to resolve that would likely involve a policy shift, ''not'' re-introducing a different form of those same templates.

====Comments (informal descriptor / descriptor)====
As the guy behind the derived names proposal, I would like to note that derived names by design cannot be informal. They are gathered by comparing proper names from the source language <small>or source code, if you will</small> against related proper names in English. This has been relevant for the [[Kyodai na Hoppin]], whose official Japanese name is informal, translating roughly to "Hoppycat that is giant", and has been left in Japanese as a result.--[[User:PopitTart|PopitTart]] ([[User talk:PopitTart|talk]]) 16:10, December 30, 2024 (EST)

{{@|GuntherBayBeee}} Forgive me if this is off-topic, but I've noticed that a ''lot'' of your proposals are about either introducing new (notice) templates to replace old ones (even when it's not needed), or changing old (notice) templates to include new features (even if they work fine without those) or to change its purpose (again, even if they already work fine the way they are): Is there a reason why you want to change the wiki's structure of its (notice) templates so much? Is it to mimic Wikipedia's style more, is it to distance ourselves from Wikipedia or other Wikis, is it something else? Because to me, several of your (notice) template proposals seem unnecessary; no offense. {{User:Arend/sig}} 16:13, December 30, 2024 (EST)

===Decide what to do with Template:Move infobox===
{{proposal outcome|passed|7-0-0|Keep Move Infobox}}
A while ago (November 4th, specifically), I created [[Template:Move infobox]]. After all, we had templates for essentially all the Browse tabs on the wiki sidebar, except for moves. There WERE templates about specific types of moves, such as [[Template:M&L attack infobox]], but no general template in the same vein as items, characters, species, games, locations, etc.

I discussed it on the Discord briefly, nobody said no, and a bit of feedback later about how it should look and what it should have, I created it. It has since been applied to exactly four pages at the time of writing, half of which I was the one to apply it to. In hindsight, this could've used with a proposal instead of me just making it, so here's a belated one.

Should we keep '''Template:Move infobox''' around? If we do keep it, is it good as is, or does it need changes?

'''Proposer''': {{User|EvieMaybe}}<br>
'''Deadline''': January 1st, 2025, 23:59 GMT

====Keep Move infobox, as is====
#{{User|Sparks}} I can see this template working really well for moves that aren't in every ''Mario'' game, like [[Spin]]. This has lots of potential!
#{{User|Nintendo101}} Per proposal.
#{{User|Camwoodstock}} We don't see why not--having a dedicated Moves infobox could come in handy, especially if we get any more Mario RPGs in the wake of the weird little renaissance period we've been getting with the back-to-back-to-back SMRPG remake, TTYD remake, and release of Brothership. Per proposal.
#{{User|Pseudo}} Per proposal.
#{{User|Technetium}} Per proposal.
#{{User|Salmancer}} It would bring more attention to our move pages. I'm down for that.
#{{User|BBQ Turtle}} Per all.

====Keep Move infobox, but with changes====

====Delete Move infobox====

====Move infobox Comments====
Considering the nature of the attack infoboxes, wouldn't it be weird to have moves all in purple but a Mario & Luigi attack use yellow and green and a Paper Mario attack use white and green? Should there be variants of the Move infobox to match the color schemes of existing templates? If an article is covering multiple related moves, how will the infobox work? (ex. [[Handstand]], [[Cap Throw]], [[Roll]], [[Slide Kick]]... there's more of these than I thought). What happens when a move is referenced in somewhat less "move-y" ways? Okay, that last one is kinda strange, but basically I mean "dashing" in Super Mario Run is just a fancy animation, Mario & Luigi Dream Team has an animation where Giant Luigi crouches (with posing and skidding clearly meant to be a platformer callback), to slide under an attack. Do these instances get incorporated into the infobox? Continuing the train of thought, what about sports games? Yoshi can Flutter Jump as his special action on Mario & Sonic games. Does that count as a method of input for a Flutter Jump? [[User:Salmancer|Salmancer]] ([[User talk:Salmancer|talk]]) 21:35, December 19, 2024 (EST)
:that's a lot of very interesting questions!
:*i went with purple to set it apart from the already taken light red (game), green and white (character), blue (level), pink (location), grey (item) and navy/grey (species) infoboxes. changing the color could be a good idea.
:*as for sorting which moves "count" or not, we have to decide these things for other types of subject too, after all, and they get infoboxes. it's a valid concern, though! {{User:EvieMaybe/sig}} 15:09, December 20, 2024 (EST)

===Set Vector-2010 to the default wiki skin===
{{proposal outcome|failed|1-8|do not set}}
This proposal is about setting the 2010 [[mw:Skin:Vector|Vector]] as the default wiki skin ([https://web.archive.org/web/20160207064154/https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/foundation/4/44/Logo_new-vector_screenshot.png screenshot here]) for desktop users, with the focus being on people who are new to wikis in particular, while obviously keeping the existing MonoBook skin as an option. What made me think to create this proposal is when I made a [[Talk:Main Page]] proposal about the to-do list tasks and how they are more accessible than clicking the "Wiki maintenance" on the sidebar, I had to uncomfortably squint to find "Wiki maintenance" on the wiki sidebar. But Vector-2010 has the sidebar links slightly larger and a bit more spaced out. With the existing interface, there could be some who may struggle to find options listed on the sidebar.

While we're clearly different from Wikipedia (that's why I'm not Vector-2022, since it'd be too much of a departure and likely uncomfortable for several), I do want to refer to [http://web.archive.org/web/20180213165624/https://blog.wikimedia.org/2010/05/13/a-new-look-for-wikipedia/ this page], which summarizes why Wikipedia transitioned to it. Though it is vague, they cite accessibility as the reason, which I think this wiki has been taking steps toward doing.

I'll cite my reasons for preferring Vector and applying this to possible people who are visiting a wiki for the first time. The text is larger, which is especially important for larger screen monitors, some of the lesser used tabs are collapsible on the sidebar, summarizing the most commonly used options, and the user links at the top right are also more noticeable and less close to the body of the article where the content is read.

Though it could take time getting used to the Edit button being on the right (not to mention the search button), the button is at least larger, making it more usable on even lower quality screen monitors, and I like how it's separate from the Page and discussion options, meaning that options that involve viewing articles are on the left while options that involve editing or changing the page in some form are on the right.

If this proposal passes and others don't like the change, they can always return to the MonoBook option in their [[Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-rendering|preferences]].

'''Proposer''': {{User|Super Mario RPG}}<br>
'''Deadline''': January 1, 2025, 23:59 GMT

====Support====
#{{User|Super Mario RPG}} Per.

====Oppose====
#{{User|Camwoodstock}} Admittedly, this vote is largely a matter of preference--we just don't like Vector that much--but we can't think of any real reason to switch to Vector 2010 as the default over the current Monobook beyond the mentioned text spacing; while that is a nice boon, we personally find the weird gradient buttons for the various tabs up top a little grating looking, and we're a fan of the more compact design that Monobook provides--though, this is likely a byproduct of our personal preference for more neatly packed web design. And uh, the less said about the other two options (Vector 2022, and. Timeless. <s>Which is the most dated theme possible, namely to mid-2010s mobile web design.</s>), the better. If you like Vector 2010, that's great, and we're fine with that! Heck, if anyone likes Vector 2022 or Timeless, that's cool too, and more power to them! Variety is the spice of life, after all. But switching it to the default is something that should not be taken lightly, and the reasons for a switch in this proposal feel a little too loosey-goosey for us, we're sorry.
#{{User|DryBonesBandit}} Per Camwoodstock.
#{{User|Nintendo101}} I like how MonoBook looks a little more than Vector. It is what I am comfortable with. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
#{{User|Drago}} Per Nintendo101. I actually prefer the smaller text of Monobook since you can see more of the page at once. I also want to point out that although logged-in users like us can change the skin in preferences, we'd still be forcing the change on logged-out users.
#{{User|Ahemtoday}} Per Drago.
#{{User|Technetium}} Per Nintendo101 and Drago. I just don't see any reason to make this change.
#{{User|Altendo}} I'm saying this as a Vector-2010 skin user, and I'll say that people have their preferences. I live Vector-2010 because that is how Wikipedia at least used to look before they switched to Vector (2022); On Wikipedia, Vector was renamed to Vector legacy (2010), while Vector 2022 is named Vector (2022). Although I do prefer Vector-2010, I know a lot of people that prefer Monobook, and even if not, this can be changed in the preferences. No need to change the default skin. I get that IPs can't change their appearance, but aside from that, users can, and what they see doesn't have to be default on the wiki. Everyone can change what they specifically see.
#{{User|Sparks}} Per all.

====Comments====
{{@|Camwoodstock}} That is true that it's a major change. It's based mainly upon impression from newcomers from them seeing a more prominent edit tab, slightly larger text size, and other minor details like tab names that are easier to read (including a collapsible feature for the lesser used tab). The skin change was based on old Wikipedia research at the time (like how WikiLove was a result of their research). I have no strong feelings whether this passes or not. Although it's vague, since there's no way to tell the statistics (and the wiki's already successful at the moment), I still have a feeling it could help some, but to each their own. [[User:Super Mario RPG|Super Mario RPG]] ([[User talk:Super Mario RPG|talk]]) 18:32, December 18, 2024 (EST)
:We feel like if anybody would be capable of providing any statistics on skin usage, it'd be Porple, but even then, we don't actually know if that's one of the things he tracks, and it feels a little silly to pester him over this of all things... ;p {{User:Camwoodstock/sig}} 18:55, December 18, 2024 (EST)

I'm okay with opposition, but in case of misunderstanding, this proposal isn't about personal preferences so much as what I believe to be a more ergonomic interface to a wider audience. I know we're not Wikipedia, but there's also the consideration that they've used the Vector skin longer than they had for MonoBook. [[User:Super Mario RPG|Super Mario RPG]] ([[User talk:Super Mario RPG|talk]]) 13:45, December 19, 2024 (EST)
:If it's what "you believe", then it ultimately (and probably unavoidably) is about personal preferences. Anyway, another consideration is the fact that people often prefer what they're used to. I feel like how long this wiki has used its skin is more relevant than how long Wikipedia has. {{User:Hewer/sig}} 16:39, December 19, 2024 (EST)
::{{@|Hewer}} I suppose I'm overthinking the ergonomic interface. [[User:Super Mario RPG|Super Mario RPG]] ([[User talk:Super Mario RPG|talk]]) 15:19, December 20, 2024 (EST)

===Merge various sports location pages into their base articles===
{{proposal outcome|canceled}}
Recently, a proposal had passed allowing various locations to be split from their base pages for taking up too much room, like how [[Toad Town]] will have {{fake link|Toad Town (Paper Mario)}}, since there's lots more game-specific information to cover. On the contrary, there are these lesser ''Super Mario'' titles that have their location split despite them usually consisting of just a single paragraph that could easily be stated within the base article. I'll explain further:

For this proposal I'll be concerning the sports games such as ''Mario Tennis'', ''Hoops'', and ''Sports Mix''. Since golf has several holes, it may be better covering that in a different proposal. This proposal will not concern any of the ''Mario Kart'' courses, either. If this proposal passes, the locations within this scope will be merged back into their base pages.

These are, after all, the same location, just in different and smaller contexts. Excluding gimmicks, there is a lack of interactivity with the environment itself, so there are no enemies to fight, no items to collect. It's just the setting of locations where a sport takes place.

Okay so let's take [[Bowser's Castle (Mario Tennis Open)]] as an example. Only a single paragraph that could easily fit into the [[Bowser's Castle]] page. The only thing that would be lost is the infobox, but that's not needed to specify every individual tennis court in {{a|MTO}}, for this example. The only other parameters besides the game location is the ball speed and bounce strength, both of which can be stated in a single sentence. The ''Mario Tennis Open'' navbox already fulfills that role.

I'll take another example: [[Bowser Castle (baseball stadium)]]. This one has a single paragraph for both ''Mario Superstar Baseball'' and ''Mario Super Sluggers''. Again, both can be mentioned on the Bowser's Castle page, and if there's a need for accessibility to either game section, we could make it a disambiguation, if the community wants. The Japanese name is slightly different from Bowser's Castle but is still meant to be a descriptor for Bowser's Castle itself.

If you look at [[Luigi's Mansion (Mario Hoops 3-on-3)]], it's ridiculously short, and the gimmicks involving the ghosts are the only real distinctive feature that involves the environment of the mansion during gameplay.

Keep in mind this proposal will also concern short articles on names that are different to anglophones, such as [[Luigi's Mansion Court]], but not to the original Japanese versions. Stages like [[Delfino Plaza Court]] have a different name, even in Japanese, so keeping that out of the scope of this proposal and perhaps for a separate one.

Also consider that the disambiguation pages for [[Luigi's Mansion (disambiguation)]] would be more cleared up with the benefit of these pages being merged so one can find actual different subjects that are named "Luigi's Mansion," not a backdrop location in a single-appearance context.

The following pages will be merged into the following if this proposal passes:

*[[Bowser's Castle (Mario Tennis Open)]], [[Bowser Castle (baseball stadium)]], [[Bowser's Castle (Mario Sports Mix)]], and [[Bowser's Castle (Mario Hoops 3-on-3)]] into [[Bowser's Castle]]
*[[Peach's Castle (Dribble Race course)]] and [[Peach's Castle (court)]] into [[Peach's Castle]]
*[[Luigi's Mansion Court]], [[Luigi's Mansion (Mario Hoops 3-on-3)]], [[Luigi's Mansion (baseball stadium)]], and [[Luigi's Mansion (Mario Sports Mix)]] into [[Luigi's Mansion (location)]]

Again, ''Mario Kart'' is not under the scope of this proposal, so there won't be discussion over like merging [[Daisy Cruiser (baseball stadium)]] into [[GCN Daisy Cruiser]].

'''Proposer''': {{User|Super Mario RPG}}<br>
'''Deadline''': January 16, 2025, 23:59 GMT

====Support====
#{{User|Super Mario RPG}} Per.

====Oppose====

====Comments====

===Merge various ''Super Smash Bros.'' stages into their base pages===
{{proposal outcome|canceled}}
Accompanying my above proposal is a proposal to merge various ''Super Smash Bros.'' stage pages into their base articles. Besides the Song list, the pages are short enough that I think they can be integrated into the base article. Basically, the same arguments into my above proposal of merging sports locations apply here, though I will provide some ''SSB''-specific reasons to the articles below (including the ones NOT covered by this proposal). It doesn't have as much gameplay distinction as the role-playing games, for example, which are being split for having a wide variety of features, such as items, enemies, and NPCs, so those needed more forms of accessibility. Though this isn't the main point to the proposal, I still want to say that the featured articles for ''Super Smash Bros.'' content are already on SmashWiki, and some may benefit from more prominence being given to the stage pages on their wiki.

To start, I'll give the example of [[75 m (stage)]] and [[75m]]. They're the exact same thing, just in the context of a ''Super Smash Bros.'' stage. This would allow the SmashWiki link to point to 75m and better convey to the reader that 75m is featured in the context of a ''Super Smash Bros.'' stage overall.

[[Peach's Castle (Super Smash Bros.)|Peach's Castle]] isn't part of this proposal since it takes place away far above the actual castle, which is just a background graphic. For consistency and separate discussion, I'll leave out [[Princess Peach's Castle (Super Smash Bros. Melee)]] as well. [[Gamer (stage)]] will also not be covered since the base page is a minigame mode. [[Kongo Falls]] has retroactively received different naming, in English, Japanese, and other languages, so that won't be part of this proposal either. The {{a|SSB}} and {{a|SSBM}} Mushroom Kingdom stages won't be covered, since their Japanese names are different and they don't give clear representation of Mushroom Kingdom as a whole; this also goes for [[Jungle Hijinxs (stage)]], which will not be covered by this proposal. I'd say [[Mario Bros. (stage)]], but there doesn't appear to be article on the corresponding location, from what it looks. [[Jungle Japes (stage)]] won't be merged to [[Jungle Japes]] since the origin is not considered by ''SSB'' to be ''DK64'', despite the same names.

Stages like [[3D Land]] and [[Yoshi's Story (stage)]] represent the overall theme of the game, and not a location from the game, so those will also not be within the scope of this proposal. [[Super Happy Tree (stage)]] is a gray area since it's an area with the [[Super Happy Tree]] in the background but not in any interactable capacity.

The following pages will be merged into the following if this proposal passes:

*[[75 m (stage)]] and [[75m]]
*[[Luigi's Mansion (stage)]] into [[Luigi's Mansion (location)]]
*[[Delfino Plaza (stage)]] into [[Delfino Plaza]]
*[[Kongo Jungle (Super Smash Bros.)]] into [[Kongo Jungle]]
*[[New Donk City Hall (stage)]] into [[New Donk City Hall]]
*[[Rainbow Cruise]] into [[Rainbow Ride]] (both take place in the same location and Rainbow Cruise has the same Japanese name)
*[[Rumble Falls (stage)]] into [[Rumble Falls]]
*[[Yoshi's Island (Super Smash Bros. Melee)]] and [[Yoshi's Island (Super Smash Bros. Brawl)]] into [[Yoshi's Island (location)]]

'''Proposer''': {{User|Super Mario RPG}}<br>
'''Deadline''': January 16, 2025, 23:59 GMT

====Support====
#{{User|Super Mario RPG}} Per.

====Oppose====
#{{User|Axii}} These stages fundamentally have a different function and purpose from the stage they were based on (and it would be inconsistent to leave out the stages that are near identical to their base material).
#{{User|Mario}} All these exceptions granted in the proposal create an unnecessarily complex tangled web and make me believe the right call is to leave these split. I view these stages the same vein how other spinoffs grant separate iterations of the same location, which we typically split. I believe we split several RPG locations already, or at least there is an ongoing proposal that gathered a solid consensus, due the large information these locations tend to have, too. You should consider the hypothetical argument of merging the other Luigi's Mansions and whatnot, which I believe is not a solid case. See how those pages are split at [[Luigi's Mansion (disambiguation)]].

====Comments====

===Create the <nowiki>{{</nowiki>{{fake link|SMG trading card|Template:SMG trading card}}<nowiki>}}</nowiki> template===
{{proposal outcome|canceled}}
Two days ago, the <nowiki>{{</nowiki>{{fake link|SMG trading card|Template:SMG trading card}}<nowiki>}}</nowiki> template has been deleted because it's an unofficially created template that was created without approval. But today, I'll have to start over by making a proposal about the possibility to create the template.

As you can see, the <nowiki>{{</nowiki>{{fake link|content description|Template:Content description}}<nowiki>}}</nowiki> template is being removed for deletion. The administrator who tagged this template with the {{tem|delete-request}} tag gave the following reason why the template should be deleted:

{{quote|Less flexible than, and to be replaced with, normal table coding, as decided by the admins. Please do not continue to use this template for any more pages.|[[User:Mario jc|Mario jc]]}}

In this case, I humbly propose that there's a possibility to create the <nowiki>{{SMG trading card}}</nowiki> template.

Here's what happens if this proposal passes. We'll start off with the source. First of all, this is what the source of the template that is surrounded by the <code><nowiki><includeonly></nowiki></code> markup will look like:

<pre>
{| class="infobox-wide" style="background:#8888ff;border-color:#000;width:75%"
!colspan=100% style="font-size:125%;color:white;background:#000080"| <span style="font-size:130%">{{color link|white|{{{name|{{PAGETITLE}}}}}|{{{altname|}}}}}</span>
|-
|rowspan={{#if:{{{desc|}}}|2|1}} style="padding:5px;border:1px solid darkgray;border-top:2px solid darkgray;border-left:2px solid darkgray;border-bottom:2px solid darkgray;text-align:center;width:10%; background:#f8f8ff"|{{{image|[[File:No image.png|100px|center|class=notpageimage]]
[[Special:Upload|<small>Upload one!</small>]]}}}
|style="padding:5px;border:1px solid darkgray;border-top:2px solid darkgray;border-bottom:{{#if:{{{desc|}}}|1|2}}px solid darkgray;text-align:center;width:20%;background:#f8f8ff"|'''Type'''
|style="border:1px solid darkgray;border-top:2px solid darkgray;border-right:2px solid darkgray;border-bottom:{{#if:{{{desc|}}}|1|2}}px solid darkgray;background:#f8f8ff"|{{{type|}}}
{{#if:{{{desc|}}}|
{{!}}-
{{!}}colspan=2 style="border:1px solid darkgray;border-bottom:2px solid darkgray;border-right:2px solid darkgray;background:#f8f8ff"{{!}}''{{{desc|}}}''}}
|}
</pre>

And second of all, this is what the source of the template that is surrounded by the <code><nowiki><noinclude></nowiki></code> markup will look like:

<pre>
This template displays trading card data from ''[[Super Mario Galaxy]]''. The variables are as follows:

{|class="wikitable floatright" style="width:75%; margin:0 0 1em 1em"
!colspan=2|Syntax
|-
|<code><nowiki><nowiki>|</nowiki></nowiki>name=</code> || What appears on the card.
|-
|<code><nowiki><nowiki>|</nowiki></nowiki>altname=</code> || The displayed name of what appears on the card. (optional)
|-
|<code><nowiki><nowiki>|</nowiki></nowiki>image=</code> || An image of the card.
|-
|<code><nowiki><nowiki>|</nowiki></nowiki>type=</code> || The card's type.
|-
|<code><nowiki><nowiki>|</nowiki></nowiki>description=</code> || A description of what appears on the card.
|}
</pre>

This template displays trading card data from ''[[Super Mario Galaxy]]''. The variables are as follows:

{|class="wikitable floatright" style="width:75%; margin:0 0 1em 1em"
!colspan=2|Syntax
|-
|<code><nowiki>|</nowiki>name=</code> || What appears on the card.
|-
|<code><nowiki>|</nowiki>altname=</code> || The displayed name of what appears on the card. (optional)
|-
|<code><nowiki>|</nowiki>image=</code> || An image of the card.
|-
|<code><nowiki>|</nowiki>type=</code> || The card's type.
|-
|<code><nowiki>|</nowiki>description=</code> || A description of what appears on the card.
|}

<pre>
{{SMG trading card
|name=
|altname=
|image=
|type=
|desc=
}}
</pre>

We'll use the <code><nowiki><pre></nowiki></code> markup for the example above (which will be placed below <code><nowiki>|}</nowiki></code>), followed by <code><nowiki>[[Category:Horizontal infoboxes]]</nowiki></code> being placed below the <code><nowiki></pre></nowiki></code> tag.

But now for examples of how the <nowiki>{{SMG trading card}}</nowiki> template is used. Images of character, boss, enemy, and item cards use the <code>x200px</code> size while images of location cards use the <code>200px</code> size. Here's an example of some trading card profiles:

{{hide|show=Show character card example|hide=Hide character card example|content=
<pre>
{{SMG trading card
|name=Mario
|image=[[File:MarioTradingCard.png|x200px]]
|type=Character
|desc=Mario, the greatest hero in all the Mushroom Kingdom, takes off on a celestial adventure to rescue Princess Peach. During the Star Festival, Bowser descends in his air fleet and steals the princess away to an unknown place in the galaxy! Now Mario must travel through space, fending off enemies and evil bosses to rescue the princess and restore order to the universe.
}}
</pre>

{{{!}} class="infobox-wide" style="background:#8888ff;border-color:#000;width:75%"
!colspan=100% style="font-size:125%;color:white;background:#000080"{{!}} <span style="font-size:130%">{{color link|white|Mario}}</span>
{{!}}-
{{!}}rowspan=2 style="padding:5px;border:1px solid darkgray;border-top:2px solid darkgray;border-left:2px solid darkgray;border-bottom:2px solid darkgray;text-align:center;width:10%; background:#f8f8ff"{{!}}[[File:MarioTradingCard.png|x200px]]
{{!}}style="padding:5px;border:1px solid darkgray;border-top:2px solid darkgray;text-align:center;width:20%;background:#f8f8ff"{{!}}'''Type'''
{{!}}style="border:1px solid darkgray;border-top:2px solid darkgray;border-right:2px solid darkgray;border-bottom:1px solid darkgray;background:#f8f8ff"{{!}}Character
{{!}}-
{{!}}colspan=2 style="border:1px solid darkgray;border-bottom:2px solid darkgray;border-right:2px solid darkgray;background:#f8f8ff"{{!}}''Mario, the greatest hero in all the Mushroom Kingdom, takes off on a celestial adventure to rescue Princess Peach. During the Star Festival, Bowser descends in his air fleet and steals the princess away to an unknown place in the galaxy! Now Mario must travel through space, fending off enemies and evil bosses to rescue the princess and restore order to the universe.''
{{!}}}
}}

{{hide|show=Show boss card example|hide=Hide boss card example|content=
<pre>
{{SMG trading card
|name=Bowser
|image=[[File:BowserTradingCard.png|x200px]]
|type=Boss
|desc=Mario's archnemesis returns to the Mushroom Kingdom with a dastardly plan in hand. He surprise-attacks during the Star Festival, descending in his air fleet, and kidnaps Princess Peach! He takes her and her entire castle away into the far reaches of the universe, where Mario must travel to rescue her and restore order to the Mushroom Kingdom.
}}
</pre>

{{{!}} class="infobox-wide" style="background:#8888ff;border-color:#000;width:75%"
!colspan=100% style="font-size:125%;color:white;background:#000080"{{!}} <span style="font-size:130%">{{color link|white|Bowser}}</span>
{{!}}-
{{!}}rowspan=2 style="padding:5px;border:1px solid darkgray;border-top:2px solid darkgray;border-left:2px solid darkgray;border-bottom:2px solid darkgray;text-align:center;width:10%; background:#f8f8ff"{{!}}[[File:BowserTradingCard.png|x200px]]
{{!}}style="padding:5px;border:1px solid darkgray;border-top:2px solid darkgray;text-align:center;width:20%;background:#f8f8ff"{{!}}'''Type'''
{{!}}style="border:1px solid darkgray;border-top:2px solid darkgray;border-right:2px solid darkgray;border-bottom:1px solid darkgray;background:#f8f8ff"{{!}}Boss
{{!}}-
{{!}}colspan=2 style="border:1px solid darkgray;border-bottom:2px solid darkgray;border-right:2px solid darkgray;background:#f8f8ff"{{!}}''Mario's archnemesis returns to the Mushroom Kingdom with a dastardly plan in hand. He surprise-attacks during the Star Festival, descending in his air fleet, and kidnaps Princess Peach! He takes her and her entire castle away into the far reaches of the universe, where Mario must travel to rescue her and restore order to the Mushroom Kingdom.''
{{!}}}
}}

{{hide|show=Show enemy card example|hide=Hide enemy card example|content=
<pre>
{{SMG trading card
|name=Kamek
|image=[[File:KamekTradingCard.png|x200px]]
|type=Enemy
|desc=Bowser's evil minion, Kamek, is a powerful wizard who will do anything to please his master. After Bowser hoisted Peach's entire castle out of the ground in a massive laser attack, Mario clung on to the castle walls trying to save her. Kamek saw this and cast a spell on Mario that sent him floating out into the universe.
}}
</pre>

{{{!}} class="infobox-wide" style="background:#8888ff;border-color:#000;width:75%"
!colspan=100% style="font-size:125%;color:white;background:#000080"{{!}} <span style="font-size:130%">{{color link|white|Bowser}}</span>
{{!}}-
{{!}}rowspan=2 style="padding:5px;border:1px solid darkgray;border-top:2px solid darkgray;border-left:2px solid darkgray;border-bottom:2px solid darkgray;text-align:center;width:10%; background:#f8f8ff"{{!}}[[File:KamekTradingCard.png|x200px]]
{{!}}style="padding:5px;border:1px solid darkgray;border-top:2px solid darkgray;text-align:center;width:20%;background:#f8f8ff"{{!}}'''Type'''
{{!}}style="border:1px solid darkgray;border-top:2px solid darkgray;border-right:2px solid darkgray;border-bottom:1px solid darkgray;background:#f8f8ff"{{!}}Enemy
{{!}}-
{{!}}colspan=2 style="border:1px solid darkgray;border-bottom:2px solid darkgray;border-right:2px solid darkgray;background:#f8f8ff"{{!}}''Bowser's evil minion, Kamek, is a powerful wizard who will do anything to please his master. After Bowser hoisted Peach's entire castle out of the ground in a massive laser attack, Mario clung on to the castle walls trying to save her. Kamek saw this and cast a spell on Mario that sent him floating out into the universe.''
{{!}}}
}}

{{hide|show=Show item card example|hide=Hide item card example|content=
<pre>
{{SMG trading card
|name=Bee Mushroom
|image=[[File:BeeMushroomTradingCard.png|x200px]]
|type=Item
|desc=What's all the buzz about? When Mario grabs one of these yellow mushrooms with the brown stripes, he powers up into Bee Mario! This fun and helpful mushroom is first found in the Honeyhive Galaxy after collecting a Question Coin. Bee Mario (or Bee Luigi) has the ability to fly for a short time and climb honeycomb walls.
}}
</pre>

{{{!}} class="infobox-wide" style="background:#8888ff;border-color:#000;width:75%"
!colspan=100% style="font-size:125%;color:white;background:#000080"{{!}} <span style="font-size:130%">{{color link|white|Bee Mushroom}}</span>
{{!}}-
{{!}}rowspan=2 style="padding:5px;border:1px solid darkgray;border-top:2px solid darkgray;border-left:2px solid darkgray;border-bottom:2px solid darkgray;text-align:center;width:10%; background:#f8f8ff"{{!}}[[File:BeeMushroomTradingCard.png|x200px]]
{{!}}style="padding:5px;border:1px solid darkgray;border-top:2px solid darkgray;text-align:center;width:20%;background:#f8f8ff"{{!}}'''Type'''
{{!}}style="border:1px solid darkgray;border-top:2px solid darkgray;border-right:2px solid darkgray;border-bottom:1px solid darkgray;background:#f8f8ff"{{!}}Item
{{!}}-
{{!}}colspan=2 style="border:1px solid darkgray;border-bottom:2px solid darkgray;border-right:2px solid darkgray;background:#f8f8ff"{{!}}''What's all the buzz about? When Mario grabs one of these yellow mushrooms with the brown stripes, he powers up into Bee Mario! This fun and helpful mushroom is first found in the Honeyhive Galaxy after collecting a Question Coin. Bee Mario (or Bee Luigi) has the ability to fly for a short time and climb honeycomb walls.''
{{!}}}
}}

{{hide|show=Show location card example|hide=Hide location card example|content=
<pre>
{{SMG trading card
|name=Bouncing Down Cake Lane
|image=[[File:CakeLaneTradingCard.png|200px]]
|type=Location
|desc=Bouncing down Cake Lane in the Toy Time Galaxy, Mario must traverse a series of planetoids made of yummy desserts like giant tarts, ice-cream cones, chocolate bars, and of course birthday cake! Find the birthday candles and blow them out by spinning next to them. But watch out, this move may prompt an attack from a mean-spirited mole.
}}
</pre>

{{{!}} class="infobox-wide" style="background:#8888ff;border-color:#000;width:75%"
!colspan=100% style="font-size:125%;color:white;background:#000080"{{!}} <span style="font-size:130%">{{color link|white|Bouncing Down Cake Lane}}</span>
{{!}}-
{{!}}rowspan=2 style="padding:5px;border:1px solid darkgray;border-top:2px solid darkgray;border-left:2px solid darkgray;border-bottom:2px solid darkgray;text-align:center;width:10%; background:#f8f8ff"{{!}}[[File:CakeLaneTradingCard.png|200px]]
{{!}}style="padding:5px;border:1px solid darkgray;border-top:2px solid darkgray;text-align:center;width:20%;background:#f8f8ff"{{!}}'''Type'''
{{!}}style="border:1px solid darkgray;border-top:2px solid darkgray;border-right:2px solid darkgray;border-bottom:1px solid darkgray;background:#f8f8ff"{{!}}Location
{{!}}-
{{!}}colspan=2 style="border:1px solid darkgray;border-bottom:2px solid darkgray;border-right:2px solid darkgray;background:#f8f8ff"{{!}}''Bouncing down Cake Lane in the Toy Time Galaxy, Mario must traverse a series of planetoids made of yummy desserts like giant tarts, ice-cream cones, chocolate bars, and of course birthday cake! Find the birthday candles and blow them out by spinning next to them. But watch out, this move may prompt an attack from a mean-spirited mole.''
{{!}}}
}}

This template is something we want to use for trading card profiles. That way, in case the <nowiki>{{content description}}</nowiki> template gets deleted, we'll replace it with the <nowiki>{{SMG trading card}}</nowiki> template.

'''Proposer''': {{User|GuntherBayBeee}}<br>
'''Deadline''': January 18, 2025, 23:59 GMT

====Support: Create the template====
#{{User|GuntherBayBeee}} Per proposal
#{{User|Super Mario RPG}} There's nothing wrong with having more niche templates like these.

====Oppose: Leave nonexistent====
#{{User|Waluigi Time}} This can easily be done with standard wikitable formatting, and the proposed design violates [[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive/70#Encourage_concise.2C_consistent_and_minimalistic_layouts_and_design_for_tables|the standards laid out in this proposal]]. IMO these don't even need tables, [[A Snack of Cosmic Proportions#Profiles|see here]].
#{{User|Technetium}} Per Waluigi Time.
#{{User|Camwoodstock}} Per Waluigi Time. In addition, we do have a bit of a more petty concern, in that a ''large'' portion of articles in our [[:Category:Articles with deprecated templates|Deprecated templates]] maintenance category are from templates like this.
#{{User|Nintendo101}} I will reiterate what I said on GuntherBayBee's talk page, "We really do not need additional, hyperspecific templates like this on the site. These templates can be very difficult to edit later on, and can be user unfriendly. As a general rule of thumb, if your template cannot do anything different from what a normal wikitable can, it is probably not necessary." I encourage folks to look [[Good Egg Galaxy#Super Mario Galaxy trading cards|at this wikitable here]] and consider what is materially insufficient with it, and if there is something insufficient with it, why can't one just modify the table as is? What does this template actually improve? I would like to make an additional remark that is a little tangential to this proposal, but engages with the mindset behind it. We have some users on the site that are very invested in making the site an easier and more inviting experience for new editors. That is an appreciated goal. However, from my long experience online and being involved in a diversity of wikis, I think an overreliance on templates, especially cryptic and unintuitive ones, are often more discouraging to new users than any perceived benefit that comes from a niche template, and I have seen them kneecap the community involvement of some of our NIWA affiliates in ways they would not have otherwise (in conjunction with some other policies that hamstring involvement). In my view, if a new user is coming to this site and wants to contribute, they should not feel like they need to be a savant in HTML coding, templates, or site policy. They should just feel like they need baseline reading comprehension and writing skills.
#{{User|Salmancer}} I wouldn't have voted at all before but Nintendo101 makes a strong case. Like, I do get being fancy and fun, that's cool. Specialized templates can enable that. But also there is a [[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive/70#Encourage concise, consistent and minimalistic layouts and design for tables|proposal]] that passed that disposes of doing fancy flippy tricks for tables in articles. One of its points was specifically binning doing things across multiple rows except when necessary, something that this template would be doing unnecessarily. I guess templates that exist to be fancy have to go too.
#{{User|Sparks}} Per all.

====Comments (SMG trading card)====
If this proposal fails, are you going to protect the <nowiki>{{SMG trading card}}</nowiki> template from creation? {{User:GuntherBayBeee/sig}} 13:36, January 4, 2025 (EST)


===Split image categories into separate ones for assets, screenshots, and artwork===
{{Proposal outcome|passed|8-0|Split into separate categories}}
This proposal will address the bloat some image categories have and make them easier to navigate.

Why is this useful? It makes adding to galleries or finding images to replace much easier. If you want to retake screenshots from a game, you can go to the screenshots category to find them. If you have sprite rips to replace, there's a category for that. The same goes for finding images from a game that aren't on the gallery already and being able to sort them more efficiently. This is also how we divide up character galleries already, such as [[Gallery:Mario (2010-2019)]].

Now, I can see a few edge cases, like when games have screenshots of themselves for credits images (i.e. ''[[Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door (Nintendo Switch)]]''). I would still classify these as assets, since they are ripped from the game. Artwork that is used in smaller forms in-game, such as in ''[[Super Mario Maker 2]]'', would be classified as artwork if externally released or an asset if it was ripped from the game files. Edge cases shouldn't be too common and they're easy to work out: it's not too different from how we license images or put them in character or subject galleries.

I think the name "assets" would be more useful in shorthand than "sprites and models," in addition to covering textures, so I propose for the category to be called that, but I can change it if there's opposition. The global images category can still exist in the case there's scans, merchandise, video screenshots, or such images that cannot be further categorized.

And in accordance with Waluigi Time's comment, this won't be necessary for each game, especially smaller ones like ''[[WarioWare: Snapped!]]''. As a rule of thumb, I'd say about 25 images minimum of a certain type would be enough for a sub-category.

'''Proposer''': {{User|Scrooge200}}<br>
'''Deadline''': January 5, 2025, 23:59 GMT

====Support====
#{{User|Scrooge200}} Per proposal.
#{{User|Waluigi Time}} I support this in principle, as long as there's room for discretion on what gets split and what gets left alone. A game with only ten or so pieces of artwork doesn't need a separate category for them, they can just stay in the main images category for that game. Otherwise, this seems useful, I just don't want users to go overboard by purely following the letter of this proposal.
#{{User|Salmancer}} I've tried to see if an image I wanted to use was already uploaded via the category, which would encourage me to make the text and get the article up. Due to the sheer number of images, this is a bad idea. This proposal will make that less of a bad idea for cases where an asset or artwork is being searched for.
#{{User|EvieMaybe}} hell yea
#{{User|Power Flotzo}} Per all.
#{{User|FanOfYoshi}} Per all.
#{{User|BBQ Turtle}} Per proposal, as long as Waluigi Time's feedback is taken on board.
#{{User|LadySophie17}} Per Waluigi Time.

====Oppose====

====Comments====
This is already being done (e.g. [[:Category:Mario Kart Tour item icons]]). [[User:Super Mario RPG|Super Mario RPG]] ([[User talk:Super Mario RPG|talk]]) 11:02, December 23, 2024 (EST)
@@ Line 765: / Line 765: @@
 ====Comments====
 This is already being done (e.g. [[:Category:Mario Kart Tour item icons]]). [[User:Super Mario RPG|Super Mario RPG]] ([[User talk:Super Mario RPG|talk]]) 11:02, December 23, 2024 (EST)
-===Establish a consistent table format for the "Recipes" section on ''Paper Mario'' item pages===
-{{proposal outcome|passed|21-0|Establish new table format}}
-Recently on the wiki's Discord server, the user PalaceSwitcher brought up how inconsistent the recipe tables are for ''Paper Mario'' series item pages. They even went through every page and categorized how the tables on each differ, determining that '''12''' variations exist. 12! Dreadful. Where's the <s>lamb sauce</s> consistency?!
-With that said, I think it would be best if we simply come up with a new table format altogether, and then implement it onto all these pages for both consistency and better readability - this format, which will utilize normal table coding, will replace the [[Template:PM recipe list|PM recipe list template]] in use previously. Many pages are also missing recipes, and having an outline to follow will make it easier for those to be completed. Another issue with all 12 current variations that there is one big table per page, requiring another column to specify which game(s) the recipe is in. Not only does an extra game column make the table clunkier, but it's harder for a reader to spot the exact game they're looking for. Sure, there might be repeated recipes on a page, but I feel the benefits of having one table per game outweigh this possible negative. A few pages also incorporate item icons into their tables, which I think should be the case on every page because they really help with readability; by splitting by game, we can use game-specific icons (names too, actually).
-So, here's what I'm thinking the "Recipes" section of these pages could look like with the new table format. I'll use [[Mushroom Steak]] as an example, considering it's an item found in all three games. Note that each game will be its own subsection you can jump to on the actual pages, but doing so here could mess up the formatting of the proposal.
-'''''Paper Mario'''''
-{|style="text-align:center; width:50%"class=wikitable
-!width="75%"|Recipe
-!width="25%"|Result
-|-
-|style="border-bottom:solid 1px #DDD"|{{PM item|Ultra Shroom|link=Ultra Mushroom|size=25x25px}}
-|rowspan=9|[[File:PaperMario Items ShroomSteak.png|link=|25x25px]] '''Shroom Steak'''
-|-
-|style="border-bottom:solid 1px #DDD"|{{PM item|Life Shroom|link=Life Mushroom (Paper Mario series)|size=25x25px}} + {{PM item|Dried Shroom|link=Dried Mushroom|size=25x25px}}
-|-
-|style="border-bottom:solid 1px #DDD"|{{PM item|Life Shroom|link=Life Mushroom (Paper Mario series)|size=25x25px}} + {{PM item|Mushroom|size=25x25px}}
-|-
-|style="border-bottom:solid 1px #DDD"|{{PM item|Life Shroom|link=Life Mushroom (Paper Mario series)|size=25x25px}} + {{PM item|Ultra Shroom|link=Ultra Mushroom|size=25x25px}}
-|-
-|style="border-bottom:solid 1px #DDD"|{{PM item|Ultra Shroom|link=Ultra Mushroom|size=25x25px}} + {{PM item|Mushroom|size=25x25px}}
-|-
-|style="border-bottom:solid 1px #DDD"|{{PM item|Ultra Shroom|link=Ultra Mushroom|size=25x25px}} + {{PM item|Super Shroom|link=Super Mushroom|size=25x25px}}
-|-
-|style="border-bottom:solid 1px #DDD"|{{PM item|Ultra Shroom|link=Ultra Mushroom|size=25x25px}} + {{PM item|Volt Shroom|link=Volt Mushroom|size=25x25px}}
-|-
-|style="border-bottom:solid 1px #DDD"|{{PM item|Ultra Shroom|link=Ultra Mushroom|size=25x25px}} + {{PM item|Dried Shroom|link=Dried Mushroom|size=25x25px}}
-|-
-|{{PM item|Life Shroom|link=Life Mushroom (Paper Mario series)|size=25x25px}} + {{PM item|Super Shroom|link=Super Mushroom|size=25x25px}}
-|-
-|[[File:PaperMario Items ShroomSteak.png|link=|25x25px]] '''Shroom Steak''' + {{PM item|Potato Salad|size=25x25px}}
-|{{PM item|Deluxe Feast|size=25x25px}}
-|}
-'''''Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door'''''
-{|style="text-align:center; width:50%"class=wikitable
-!width="75%"|Recipe
-!width="25%"|Result
-|-
-|style="border-bottom:solid 1px #DDD"|{{PM item|game=TTYDNS|Ultra Mushroom|size=25x25px}}
-|rowspan=9|[[File:Mushroom Steak PMTTYDNS icon.png|link=|25x25px]] '''Mushroom Steak'''
-|-
-|style="border-bottom:solid 1px #DDD"|{{PM item|game=TTYDNS|Life Mushroom|link=Life Mushroom (Paper Mario series)|size=25x25px}} + [[File:Dried Mushroom PMTTYDNS icon.png|25x25px]] [[Dried Mushroom]]
-|-
-|style="border-bottom:solid 1px #DDD"|{{PM item|game=TTYDNS|Life Mushroom|link=Life Mushroom (Paper Mario series)|size=25x25px}} + [[File:Mushroom PMTTYDNS icon.png|25x25px]] [[Mushroom]]
-|-
-|style="border-bottom:solid 1px #DDD"|{{PM item|game=TTYDNS|Life Mushroom|link=Life Mushroom (Paper Mario series)|size=25x25px}} + {{PM item|game=TTYDNS|Ultra Mushroom|size=25x25px}}
-|-
-|style="border-bottom:solid 1px #DDD"|{{PM item|game=TTYDNS|Ultra Mushroom|size=25x25px}} + {{PM item|game=TTYDNS|Mushroom|size=25x25px}}
-|-
-|style="border-bottom:solid 1px #DDD"|{{PM item|game=TTYDNS|Ultra Mushroom|size=25x25px}} + {{PM item|game=TTYDNS|Super Mushroom|size=25x25px}}
-|-
-|style="border-bottom:solid 1px #DDD"|{{PM item|game=TTYDNS|Ultra Mushroom|size=25x25px}} + {{PM item|game=TTYDNS|Volt Mushroom|size=25x25px}}
-|-
-|style="border-bottom:solid 1px #DDD"|{{PM item|game=TTYDNS|Ultra Mushroom|size=25x25px}} + {{PM item|game=TTYDNS|Dried Mushroom|size=25x25px}}
-|-
-|{{PM item|game=TTYDNS|Life Mushroom|link=Life Mushroom (Paper Mario series)|size=25x25px}} + {{PM item|game=TTYDNS|Super Mushroom|size=25x25px}}
-|-
-|style="border-bottom:solid 1px #DDD"|{{PM item|game=TTYDNS|Life Mushroom|link=Life Mushroom (Paper Mario series)|size=25x25px}} + {{PM item|game=TTYDNS|Golden Leaf|size=25x25px}}
-|rowspan=4|[[File:Mushroom Steak PMTTYDNS icon.png|link=|25x25px]] '''Mushroom Steak''' (International)<br>{{PM item|game=TTYDNS|Life Mushroom|link=Life Mushroom (Paper Mario series)|size=25x25px}} (Japan)
-|-
-|style="border-bottom:solid 1px #DDD"|{{PM item|game=TTYDNS|Life Mushroom|link=Life Mushroom (Paper Mario series)|size=25x25px}} + {{PM item|game=TTYDNS|Turtley Leaf|size=25x25px}}
-|-
-|style="border-bottom:solid 1px #DDD"|{{PM item|game=TTYDNS|Ultra Mushroom|size=25x25px}} + {{PM item|game=TTYDNS|Golden Leaf|size=25x25px}}
-|-
-|{{PM item|game=TTYDNS|Ultra Mushroom|size=25x25px}} + {{PM item|game=TTYDNS|Turtley Leaf|size=25x25px}}
-|-
-|[[File:Mushroom Steak PMTTYDNS icon.png|link=|25x25px]] '''Mushroom Steak''' + {{PM item|game=TTYDNS|Healthy Salad|size=25x25px}}
-|{{PM item|game=TTYDNS|Zess Deluxe|size=25x25px}}
-|}
-'''''Super Paper Mario'''''
-{|style="text-align:center; width:50%"class=wikitable
-!width="75%"|Recipe
-!width="25%"|Result
-|-
-|{{PM item|game=SPM|Ultra Shroom Shake|size=25x25px}}
-|[[File:Shroom Steak SPM.png|link=|25x25px]] '''Shroom Steak'''
-|-
-|style="border-bottom:solid 1px #DDD"|[[File:Shroom Steak SPM.png|link=|25x25px]] '''Shroom Steak''' + {{PM item|game=SPM|Gorgeous Steak|size=25x25px}}
-|rowspan=2|[[File:Dyllis Deluxe SPM.png|25x25px]] [[Dyllis Deluxe]]
-|-
-|[[File:Shroom Steak SPM.png|link=|25x25px]] '''Shroom Steak''' + {{PM item|game=SPM|Roast Shroom Dish|link=Mushroom Roast|size=25x25px}}
-|}
-For adding item links and their icons, any one of these three options is valid:
-* {{PM item|game=TTYDNS|Mushroom Steak|size=25x25px}} — [[Template:PM item]] for all three games
-* {{PMTTYD item|game=NS|Mushroom Steak|size=25x25px}} — [[Template:PMTTYD item]] for TTYD or [[Template:SPM item]] for SPM
-* [[File:Mushroom Steak PMTTYDNS icon.png|25x25px]] [[Mushroom Steak]] — linking a file normally
-Feel free to leave any ideas you have for the new table outline in the comments!
-'''Proposer''': {{User|Technetium}}<br>
-'''Deadline''': <s>January 15, 2025, 23:59 GMT</s> Closed early on January 8, 2025, 23:59 GMT
-====MasterChef (Support)====
-#{{User|Technetium}} As <s>Gordon Ramsay</s> proposer.
-#{{User|PaperSplash}} Per proposer.
-#{{user|Doc von Schmeltwick}} - THANK YOU. Unshrink the icons and this'd be perfect, but this is a good start.
-#{{User|Camwoodstock}} - This is so thoroughly overdue. Per proposal!
-#{{User|Super Mario RPG}} - This works better than my solution.
-#{{User|Jdtendo}} Looks good!
-#{{User|Blinker}} Per proposal
-#{{User|LadySophie17}} Looks good to me.
-#{{User|Sparks}} Per all.
-#{{User|Pseudo}} Per all.
-#{{User|EvieMaybe}} per all!!!
-#{{User|Zootalo}} Per all.
-#{{User|PalaceSwitcher}} Per all.
-#{{User|Waluigi Time}} Now we're cooking.
-#{{User|Tails777}} Yes Chef! (Per proposal, the tables look good)
-#{{User|PopitTart}} Always a fan of a good consistent format for tables.
-#{{User|OmegaRuby}} Per all - consistency makes my brain happy!
-#{{User|Mario}} Huh. Why is the design for these recipe tables always an issue in this wiki???
-#{{User|Green Star}} Per all!
-#{{User|ThePowerPlayer}} Per all.
-#{{User|FanOfYoshi}} Finally! Some '''good''' fucking food!
-====It's RAW! (Oppose)====
-====Cooking Comments====
-{{@|Doc von Schmeltwick}} What size do you think the icons should be? I just did 25x25px since that's what they are on the [[Shooting Star (item)|Shooting Star]] page, one of the only pages to currently use icons. Feel free to make an example table here. [[User:Technetium|Technetium]] ([[User talk:Technetium|talk]]) 21:05, December 31, 2024 (EST)
-:I think that except for the TTYD remake, they should ideally just be their native size. Aside from the aforementioned remake, none get big enough for that to be an issue. (At the very least, the image links should work, because in the current setup, clicking on the icon does diddly-squat when it logically should do what clicking on an image would normally do.) [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 21:59, December 31, 2024 (EST)
-::I would prefer for all the icons to be the same size if possible. When at native size besides the TTYD remake, they look like this next to each other:
-::[[File:PaperMario Items ShootingStar.png]] [[File:Shooting Star PMTTYDNS icon.png|25x25px]] [[File:Shooting Star SPM.png]]
-::As for the links, I didn't include them because it felt redundant when the page links are right next to them too (and the Shooting Star page didn't have them). If people disagree, I'd totally add links, though - let me know. There still wouldn't be a link to the item a page is about, as you could imagine. [[User:Technetium|Technetium]] ([[User talk:Technetium|talk]]) 22:18, December 31, 2024 (EST)
-:::When I click on a sprite I ''generally'' want to go to the image file page. Granted, I have used images to link to pages on rare occasions to match in-game formatting, but linking nowhere is just a waste - especially when it's shrunk, so you can't copy it to your computer's clipboard without it being compressed. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 22:21, December 31, 2024 (EST)
-::::Ah, I assumed you meant linking to the item's page, not the file link. That makes more sense. [[User:Technetium|Technetium]] ([[User talk:Technetium|talk]]) 22:22, December 31, 2024 (EST)
-:::::{|style="text-align:center"class=wikitable
-!width="75%"|Recipe
-!width="25%"|Result
-|-
-|[[File:PaperMario Items UltraShroom.png]] [[Ultra Mushroom|Ultra Shroom]]
-|rowspan=3|[[File:PaperMario Items ShroomSteak.png]] '''Shroom Steak'''
-|-
-|[[File:PaperMario Items LifeShroom.png]] [[Life Mushroom (Paper Mario series)|Life Shroom]] + [[File:PaperMario Items DriedShroom.png]] [[Dried Mushroom|Dried Shroom]]
-|-
-|[[File:PaperMario Items LifeShroom.png]] [[Life Mushroom (Paper Mario series)|Life Shroom]] + [[File:PaperMario Items Mushroom.png]] [[Mushroom]]
-|}
-:::::{|style="text-align:center"class=wikitable
-!width="75%"|Recipe
-!width="25%"|Result
-|-
-|[[File:Ultra Mushroom PMTTYDNS icon.png|25x25px]] [[Ultra Mushroom]]
-|rowspan=3|[[File:Mushroom Steak PMTTYDNS icon.png|25x25px]] '''Mushroom Steak'''
-|-
-|[[File:Life Mushroom PMTTYDNS icon.png|25x25px]] [[Life Mushroom (Paper Mario series)|Life Mushroom]] + [[File:Dried Mushroom PMTTYDNS icon.png|25x25px]] [[Dried Mushroom]]
-|-
-|[[File:Life Mushroom PMTTYDNS icon.png|25x25px]] [[Life Mushroom (Paper Mario series)|Life Mushroom]] + [[File:Mushroom PMTTYDNS icon.png|25x25px]] [[Mushroom]]
-|}
-:::::{|style="text-align:center"class=wikitable
-!width="75%"|Recipe
-!width="25%"|Result
-|-
-|[[File:Ultra Shroom Shake SPM.png]] [[Ultra Shroom Shake]]
-|[[File:Shroom Steak SPM.png]] '''Shroom Steak'''
-|-
-|[[File:Shroom Steak SPM.png]] '''Shroom Steak''' + [[File:Gorgeous Steak SPM.png]] [[Gorgeous Steak]]
-|rowspan=2|[[File:Dyllis Deluxe SPM.png]] [[Dyllis Deluxe]]
-|-
-|[[File:Shroom Steak SPM.png]] '''Shroom Steak''' + [[File:Roast Shroom Dish SPM.png]] [[Mushroom Roast|Roast Shroom Dish]]
-|}
-:::::Here are some tables with native sized icons (besides TTYD). Yeah, it does make SPM stand out more, though each game will be a separate subsection... and maybe TTYD could be made a bit larger? What do you guys think? I still prefer how they look in the proposal proper, though maybe those icons could be made a bit bigger (don't know if that would mess up the quality of the PM64 sprites, though...) [[User:Technetium|Technetium]] ([[User talk:Technetium|talk]]) 22:36, December 31, 2024 (EST)
-::::::Generally speaking, I'd go with making the TTYDNS sprites appear the same size as the TTYD raw size. So they could appear side-by-side easily. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 23:19, December 31, 2024 (EST)
-:::::::I mean, I don't think I'm ever going to use the original TTYD sprites for these tables, given I was just going to merge TTYD and its remake into one section. I'm aware there are some recipe differences, but I was just going to mark those in the tables with the GCN and Switch logo icons. [[User:Technetium|Technetium]] ([[User talk:Technetium|talk]]) 08:55, January 1, 2025 (EST)
-::::::::Personally, I really don't see the point in having the icons be shown in their native size. Having them be different sizes like that just looks clunky for no good reason. [[User:Blinker|Blinker]] ([[User talk:Blinker|talk]]) 09:44, January 1, 2025 (EST)
-:::::::::Spriter's itch. Seeing incorrectly sized sprites is not a pleasant sensation. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 13:42, January 1, 2025 (EST)
-::::::::::Well, now the icons link to the original sprite files. And I think far more readers would be bothered by the icons being different sizes. Your opinion is valid, but is likely very much the minority here. I'm going to keep the icons the same size as each other for this proposal, though I would be open to making them a bit bigger if people would prefer that (though I don't think the PM64 ones really can get much bigger without their quality being lowered). [[User:Technetium|Technetium]] ([[User talk:Technetium|talk]]) 13:48, January 1, 2025 (EST)
-::::::::::I really don't think the concept of a "correct" size really applies here? These aren't NES games or whatever. The resolution of a sprite doesn't dictate its size on the screen anyway. Especially across different games with varying resolutions. So why should it dictate it here, you know?  [[User:Blinker|Blinker]] ([[User talk:Blinker|talk]]) 13:58, January 1, 2025 (EST)
-:::::::::::PM64's sprites are, at the very least, generally consistent resolution to each other per shared camera distance. There are exceptions, like things that appear in multiple sizes (notably the Bloopers). Later games have more complex sprites in pieces that may or may not have a relatively consistent resolution, but "icon"-type sprites such as these invariably do relative to each other. Anyway, resized pixels just look kinda icky, so I prefer, personally, to minimize use of that if it can be helped. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 15:33, January 1, 2025 (EST)
-Honestly, our only worry is if anyone is willing/able to go and implemenent this proposal in all the articles when this is done, [https://xkcd.com/927/ so as to prevent a scenario like this]... ;P {{User:Camwoodstock/sig}} 10:40, January 1, 2025 (EST)
-:Oh don't worry, I plan on working on it. Just stinks the proposal won't end until after my winter break ends too… eh, I'll probably still have plenty of free time. [[User:Technetium|Technetium]] ([[User talk:Technetium|talk]]) 10:46, January 1, 2025 (EST)
-I do prefer it recipe ingredients were separated by line breaks. It's just easier for me to discern where a recipe begins and ends. {{User:Mario/sig}} 12:56, January 1, 2025 (EST)
-:What would this look like in a table? If you could make a little example. [[User:Technetium|Technetium]] ([[User talk:Technetium|talk]]) 13:02, January 1, 2025 (EST)
-::Something like this
-{|style="text-align:center"class=wikitable
-!width="75%"|Recipe
-!width="25%"|Result
-|-
-|[[File:PaperMario Items UltraShroom.png|25x25px]] [[Ultra Mushroom|Ultra Shroom]]<br>
-[[File:PaperMario Items LifeShroom.png|25x25px]] [[Life Mushroom (Paper Mario series)|Life Shroom]] + [[File:PaperMario Items DriedShroom.png|25x25px]] [[Dried Mushroom|Dried Shroom]]<br>
-[[File:PaperMario Items LifeShroom.png|25x25px]] [[Life Mushroom (Paper Mario series)|Life Shroom]] + [[File:PaperMario Items Mushroom.png|25x25px]] [[Mushroom]]<br>
-[[File:PaperMario Items LifeShroom.png|25x25px]] [[Life Mushroom (Paper Mario series)|Life Shroom]] + [[File:PaperMario Items UltraShroom.png|25x25px]] [[Ultra Mushroom|Ultra Shroom]]<br>
-[[File:PaperMario Items UltraShroom.png|25x25px]] [[Ultra Mushroom|Ultra Shroom]] + [[File:PaperMario Items Mushroom.png|25x25px]] [[Mushroom]]<br>
-[[File:PaperMario Items UltraShroom.png|25x25px]] [[Ultra Mushroom|Ultra Shroom]] + [[File:PaperMario Items SuperShroom.png|25x25px]] [[Super Mushroom|Super Shroom]]
-|[[File:PaperMario Items ShroomSteak.png|25x25px]] '''Shroom Steak'''
-|-
-|[[File:PaperMario Items ShroomSteak.png|25x25px]] '''Shroom Steak''' + [[File:PaperMario Items PotatoSalad.png|25x25px]] [[Potato Salad]]
-|[[File:PaperMario Items DeluxeFeast.png|25x25px]] [[Deluxe Feast]]
-|}
-::I also think it beats out using rowspan. The resulting code is easier to parse too. It was like this before btw, but it was changed to all those cells, and I just think this display is much easier to tell which ingredient list for a dish is the last one before the next dish begins. {{User:Mario/sig}} 14:53, January 1, 2025 (EST)
-:::The only issue is that some of the icons bump into each other, and I'd rather not remove the icons because they greatly increase readability. [[User:Technetium|Technetium]] ([[User talk:Technetium|talk]]) 15:01, January 1, 2025 (EST)
-::::Yeah. I just want to find a way to help separate the dishes better. Maybe introduce a bolder line around the dishes+recipes while the individual recipes have thinner lines. It just needs some visual organization. {{User:Mario/sig}} 15:03, January 1, 2025 (EST)
-:::::I was actually just thinking of that, lol. I'll definitely edit that into the proposal - just don't have my computer atm, though I should in the next couple hours. [[User:Technetium|Technetium]] ([[User talk:Technetium|talk]]) 15:04, January 1, 2025 (EST)
-Here's a test of adding thicker lines between recipies.
-{|style="text-align:center"class=wikitable
-!width="75%"|Recipe
-!width="25%"|Result
-|-
-|[[File:Ultra Mushroom PMTTYDNS icon.png|25x25px]] [[Ultra Mushroom]]
-|rowspan=9 style="border-bottom: solid 5px"|[[File:Mushroom Steak PMTTYDNS icon.png|25x25px]] '''Mushroom Steak'''
-|-
-|[[File:Life Mushroom PMTTYDNS icon.png|25x25px]] [[Life Mushroom (Paper Mario series)|Life Mushroom]] + [[File:Dried Mushroom PMTTYDNS icon.png|25x25px]] [[Dried Mushroom]]
-|-
-|[[File:Life Mushroom PMTTYDNS icon.png|25x25px]] [[Life Mushroom (Paper Mario series)|Life Mushroom]] + [[File:Mushroom PMTTYDNS icon.png|25x25px]] [[Mushroom]]
-|-
-|[[File:Life Mushroom PMTTYDNS icon.png|25x25px]] [[Life Mushroom (Paper Mario series)|Life Mushroom]] + [[File:Ultra Mushroom PMTTYDNS icon.png|25x25px]] [[Ultra Mushroom]]
-|-
-|[[File:Ultra Mushroom PMTTYDNS icon.png|25x25px]] [[Ultra Mushroom]] + [[File:Mushroom PMTTYDNS icon.png|25x25px]] [[Mushroom]]
-|-
-|[[File:Ultra Mushroom PMTTYDNS icon.png|25x25px]] [[Ultra Mushroom]] + [[File:Super Mushroom PMTTYDNS icon.png|25x25px]] [[Super Mushroom]]
-|-
-|[[File:Ultra Mushroom PMTTYDNS icon.png|25x25px]] [[Ultra Mushroom]] + [[File:Volt Mushroom PMTTYDNS icon.png|25x25px]] [[Volt Mushroom]]
-|-
-|[[File:Ultra Mushroom PMTTYDNS icon.png|25x25px]] [[Ultra Mushroom]] + [[File:Dried Mushroom PMTTYDNS icon.png|25x25px]] [[Dried Mushroom]]
-|-
-|style="border-bottom: solid 5px"|[[File:Life Mushroom PMTTYDNS icon.png|25x25px]] [[Life Mushroom (Paper Mario series)|Life Mushroom]] + [[File:Super Mushroom PMTTYDNS icon.png|25x25px]] [[Super Mushroom]]
-|-
-|[[File:Life Mushroom PMTTYDNS icon.png|25x25px]] [[Life Mushroom (Paper Mario series)|Life Mushroom]] + [[File:Golden Leaf PMTTYDNS icon.png|25x25px]] [[Golden Leaf]]
-|rowspan=4 style="border-bottom: solid 5px"|[[File:Mushroom Steak PMTTYDNS icon.png|25x25px]] '''Mushroom Steak''' (International)<br>[[File:Life Mushroom PMTTYDNS icon.png|25x25px]] [[Life Mushroom]] (Japan)
-|-
-|[[File:Life Mushroom PMTTYDNS icon.png|25x25px]] [[Life Mushroom (Paper Mario series)|Life Mushroom]] + [[File:Turtley Leaf PMTTYDNS icon.png|25x25px]] [[Turtley Leaf]]
-|-
-|[[File:Ultra Mushroom PMTTYDNS icon.png|25x25px]] [[Ultra Mushroom]] + [[File:Golden Leaf PMTTYDNS icon.png|25x25px]] [[Golden Leaf]]
-|-
-|style="border-bottom: solid 5px"|[[File:Ultra Mushroom PMTTYDNS icon.png|25x25px]] [[Ultra Mushroom]] + [[File:Turtley Leaf PMTTYDNS icon.png|25x25px]] [[Turtley Leaf]]
-|-
-|[[File:Mushroom Steak PMTTYDNS icon.png|25x25px]] '''Mushroom Steak''' + [[File:Healthy Salad PMTTYDNS icon.png|25x25px]] [[Healthy Salad]]
-|[[File:Zess Deluxe PMTTYDNS icon.png|25x25px]] [[Zess Deluxe]]
-|}
---[[User:PopitTart|PopitTart]] ([[User talk:PopitTart|talk]]) 16:20, January 1, 2025 (EST)
-:Thanks! I think the lines are a bit too thick - maybe they could be 3 or even 2 px? I'd also like the borders to be the same thickness so they don't stand out too much (and the lines beneath Recipe and Result). [[User:Technetium|Technetium]] ([[User talk:Technetium|talk]]) 16:23, January 1, 2025 (EST)
-Okay, try #2 using lighter "internal borders" rather than thicker "external borders".
-{|style="text-align:center"class=wikitable
-!width="75%"|Recipe
-!width="25%"|Result
-|-
-|style="border-bottom:solid 1px #DDD"|[[File:Ultra Mushroom PMTTYDNS icon.png|25x25px]] [[Ultra Mushroom]]
-|rowspan=9|[[File:Mushroom Steak PMTTYDNS icon.png|25x25px]] '''Mushroom Steak'''
-|-
-|style="border-bottom:solid 1px #DDD"|[[File:Life Mushroom PMTTYDNS icon.png|25x25px]] [[Life Mushroom (Paper Mario series)|Life Mushroom]] + [[File:Dried Mushroom PMTTYDNS icon.png|25x25px]] [[Dried Mushroom]]
-|-
-|style="border-bottom:solid 1px #DDD"|[[File:Life Mushroom PMTTYDNS icon.png|25x25px]] [[Life Mushroom (Paper Mario series)|Life Mushroom]] + [[File:Mushroom PMTTYDNS icon.png|25x25px]] [[Mushroom]]
-|-
-|style="border-bottom:solid 1px #DDD"|[[File:Life Mushroom PMTTYDNS icon.png|25x25px]] [[Life Mushroom (Paper Mario series)|Life Mushroom]] + [[File:Ultra Mushroom PMTTYDNS icon.png|25x25px]] [[Ultra Mushroom]]
-|-
-|style="border-bottom:solid 1px #DDD"|[[File:Ultra Mushroom PMTTYDNS icon.png|25x25px]] [[Ultra Mushroom]] + [[File:Mushroom PMTTYDNS icon.png|25x25px]] [[Mushroom]]
-|-
-|style="border-bottom:solid 1px #DDD"|[[File:Ultra Mushroom PMTTYDNS icon.png|25x25px]] [[Ultra Mushroom]] + [[File:Super Mushroom PMTTYDNS icon.png|25x25px]] [[Super Mushroom]]
-|-
-|style="border-bottom:solid 1px #DDD"|[[File:Ultra Mushroom PMTTYDNS icon.png|25x25px]] [[Ultra Mushroom]] + [[File:Volt Mushroom PMTTYDNS icon.png|25x25px]] [[Volt Mushroom]]
-|-
-|style="border-bottom:solid 1px #DDD"|[[File:Ultra Mushroom PMTTYDNS icon.png|25x25px]] [[Ultra Mushroom]] + [[File:Dried Mushroom PMTTYDNS icon.png|25x25px]] [[Dried Mushroom]]
-|-
-|[[File:Life Mushroom PMTTYDNS icon.png|25x25px]] [[Life Mushroom (Paper Mario series)|Life Mushroom]] + [[File:Super Mushroom PMTTYDNS icon.png|25x25px]] [[Super Mushroom]]
-|-
-|style="border-bottom:solid 1px #DDD"|[[File:Life Mushroom PMTTYDNS icon.png|25x25px]] [[Life Mushroom (Paper Mario series)|Life Mushroom]] + [[File:Golden Leaf PMTTYDNS icon.png|25x25px]] [[Golden Leaf]]
-|rowspan=4|[[File:Mushroom Steak PMTTYDNS icon.png|25x25px]] '''Mushroom Steak''' (International)<br>[[File:Life Mushroom PMTTYDNS icon.png|25x25px]] [[Life Mushroom]] (Japan)
-|-
-|style="border-bottom:solid 1px #DDD"|[[File:Life Mushroom PMTTYDNS icon.png|25x25px]] [[Life Mushroom (Paper Mario series)|Life Mushroom]] + [[File:Turtley Leaf PMTTYDNS icon.png|25x25px]] [[Turtley Leaf]]
-|-
-|style="border-bottom:solid 1px #DDD"|[[File:Ultra Mushroom PMTTYDNS icon.png|25x25px]] [[Ultra Mushroom]] + [[File:Golden Leaf PMTTYDNS icon.png|25x25px]] [[Golden Leaf]]
-|-
-|[[File:Ultra Mushroom PMTTYDNS icon.png|25x25px]] [[Ultra Mushroom]] + [[File:Turtley Leaf PMTTYDNS icon.png|25x25px]] [[Turtley Leaf]]
-|-
-|[[File:Mushroom Steak PMTTYDNS icon.png|25x25px]] '''Mushroom Steak''' + [[File:Healthy Salad PMTTYDNS icon.png|25x25px]] [[Healthy Salad]]
-|[[File:Zess Deluxe PMTTYDNS icon.png|25x25px]] [[Zess Deluxe]]
-|}
---[[User:PopitTart|PopitTart]] ([[User talk:PopitTart|talk]]) 18:47, January 1, 2025 (EST)
-:This is perfect, thanks so much! I'll update the proposal shortly. [[User:Technetium|Technetium]] ([[User talk:Technetium|talk]]) 18:53, January 1, 2025 (EST)
-::All right! Let's try this out. {{User:Mario/sig}} 21:47, January 1, 2025 (EST)
-:Our only real complaint we can think of is that on some screens, the faded border lines are a little too low-contrast. Aside from that, though, we think this is a very elegant solution! {{User:Camwoodstock/sig}} 15:03, January 2, 2025 (EST)
-::Yeah, I’ve noticed that on mobile. Not really sure if there's anyway around that… [[User:Technetium|Technetium]] ([[User talk:Technetium|talk]]) 17:09, January 2, 2025 (EST)
-With all of that figured out, does anyone have any suggestions regarding the width of the tables? [[User:Technetium|Technetium]] ([[User talk:Technetium|talk]]) 19:14, January 1, 2025 (EST)
-:I think they should be about 50% width. Small enough to not take up the entire width of the page but large enough to not have their content be cramped. [[User:PalaceSwitcher|PalaceSwitcher]] ([[User talk:PalaceSwitcher|talk]]) 13:36, January 2 2025 (EST)
-::Can you code an example of what this would look like compared to the current tables? And would this make the widths of each game equal? I was more so wondering here if each game's width should be equal or if that doesn't really matter. [[User:Technetium|Technetium]] ([[User talk:Technetium|talk]]) 13:41, January 2, 2025 (EST)
-:::{|style="text-align:center; width:50%"class=wikitable
-!width="75%"|Recipe
-!width="25%"|Result
-|-
-|style="border-bottom:solid 1px #DDD"|[[File:Ultra Mushroom PMTTYDNS icon.png|25x25px]] [[Ultra Mushroom]]
-|rowspan=9|[[File:Mushroom Steak PMTTYDNS icon.png|25x25px]] '''Mushroom Steak'''
-|-
-|style="border-bottom:solid 1px #DDD"|[[File:Life Mushroom PMTTYDNS icon.png|25x25px]] [[Life Mushroom (Paper Mario series)|Life Mushroom]] + [[File:Dried Mushroom PMTTYDNS icon.png|25x25px]] [[Dried Mushroom]]
-|-
-|style="border-bottom:solid 1px #DDD"|[[File:Life Mushroom PMTTYDNS icon.png|25x25px]] [[Life Mushroom (Paper Mario series)|Life Mushroom]] + [[File:Mushroom PMTTYDNS icon.png|25x25px]] [[Mushroom]]
-|-
-|style="border-bottom:solid 1px #DDD"|[[File:Life Mushroom PMTTYDNS icon.png|25x25px]] [[Life Mushroom (Paper Mario series)|Life Mushroom]] + [[File:Ultra Mushroom PMTTYDNS icon.png|25x25px]] [[Ultra Mushroom]]
-|-
-|style="border-bottom:solid 1px #DDD"|[[File:Ultra Mushroom PMTTYDNS icon.png|25x25px]] [[Ultra Mushroom]] + [[File:Mushroom PMTTYDNS icon.png|25x25px]] [[Mushroom]]
-|-
-|style="border-bottom:solid 1px #DDD"|[[File:Ultra Mushroom PMTTYDNS icon.png|25x25px]] [[Ultra Mushroom]] + [[File:Super Mushroom PMTTYDNS icon.png|25x25px]] [[Super Mushroom]]
-|-
-|style="border-bottom:solid 1px #DDD"|[[File:Ultra Mushroom PMTTYDNS icon.png|25x25px]] [[Ultra Mushroom]] + [[File:Volt Mushroom PMTTYDNS icon.png|25x25px]] [[Volt Mushroom]]
-|-
-|style="border-bottom:solid 1px #DDD"|[[File:Ultra Mushroom PMTTYDNS icon.png|25x25px]] [[Ultra Mushroom]] + [[File:Dried Mushroom PMTTYDNS icon.png|25x25px]] [[Dried Mushroom]]
-|-
-|[[File:Life Mushroom PMTTYDNS icon.png|25x25px]] [[Life Mushroom (Paper Mario series)|Life Mushroom]] + [[File:Super Mushroom PMTTYDNS icon.png|25x25px]] [[Super Mushroom]]
-|-
-|style="border-bottom:solid 1px #DDD"|[[File:Life Mushroom PMTTYDNS icon.png|25x25px]] [[Life Mushroom (Paper Mario series)|Life Mushroom]] + [[File:Golden Leaf PMTTYDNS icon.png|25x25px]] [[Golden Leaf]]
-|rowspan=4|[[File:Mushroom Steak PMTTYDNS icon.png|25x25px]] '''Mushroom Steak''' (International)<br>[[File:Life Mushroom PMTTYDNS icon.png|25x25px]] [[Life Mushroom]] (Japan)
-|-
-|style="border-bottom:solid 1px #DDD"|[[File:Life Mushroom PMTTYDNS icon.png|25x25px]] [[Life Mushroom (Paper Mario series)|Life Mushroom]] + [[File:Turtley Leaf PMTTYDNS icon.png|25x25px]] [[Turtley Leaf]]
-|-
-|style="border-bottom:solid 1px #DDD"|[[File:Ultra Mushroom PMTTYDNS icon.png|25x25px]] [[Ultra Mushroom]] + [[File:Golden Leaf PMTTYDNS icon.png|25x25px]] [[Golden Leaf]]
-|-
-|[[File:Ultra Mushroom PMTTYDNS icon.png|25x25px]] [[Ultra Mushroom]] + [[File:Turtley Leaf PMTTYDNS icon.png|25x25px]] [[Turtley Leaf]]
-|-
-|[[File:Mushroom Steak PMTTYDNS icon.png|25x25px]] '''Mushroom Steak''' + [[File:Healthy Salad PMTTYDNS icon.png|25x25px]] [[Healthy Salad]]
-|[[File:Zess Deluxe PMTTYDNS icon.png|25x25px]] [[Zess Deluxe]]
-|}
-:::Here's an example at 50%. Every game should have the same table width for consistency. [[User:PalaceSwitcher|PalaceSwitcher]] ([[User talk:PalaceSwitcher|talk]]) 13:58, January 2 2025 (EST)
-::::Ah, so that's how you do it. Thanks! [[User:Technetium|Technetium]] ([[User talk:Technetium|talk]]) 14:14, January 2, 2025 (EST)
-Actually, there's one other topic I’d like to discuss. I talked about the icon links with Doc earlier, but people have differing opinions on the Discord so I thought I'd bring it up again. Should the icons link to the item's article, link to the file itself (as they do currently in the proposal tables), or link to nothing? I don't really have an opinion on it myself so I'd like to hear yours. [[User:Technetium|Technetium]] ([[User talk:Technetium|talk]]) 20:35, January 1, 2025 (EST)
-:Hmm, I'll summarize what has been discussed already. Having the icons link to their respective image file could be an issue as a reader could misclick on it instead of the actual article link. Having the icons link to the article more so just extends the size of the link functionally if anything, though it's redundant. Having no links just prevents the possibility of misclicking and makes the article links normally sized. While I can see the value in linking to the icon image itself, especially as they won't be natively sized here, the misclicking argument is compelling to me. [[User:Technetium|Technetium]] ([[User talk:Technetium|talk]]) 21:30, January 1, 2025 (EST)
-::As I see it, if a wiki reader is looking at the recipe tables of an item, they're more likely there because they want to know about the game mechanic of recipe making and the items involved, not their icon files. Sending them out of the main namespace because they misjudged where to click or tap slightly just creates a small bit of unnecessary friction. And if they ''do'' actually want the icons themselves, then its simple enough to follow the link to the respective item's own page and find the relevant images right in the infobox.--[[User:PopitTart|PopitTart]] ([[User talk:PopitTart|talk]]) 22:08, January 1, 2025 (EST)
-:::???? The same argument can be made for icons in general. If you're already linking a subject in text, the image shouldn't just link to the same place. (That's irritated me several times... particularly on recipe tables.) [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 22:17, January 1, 2025 (EST)
-::::This is why I'm wondering if we should just compromise by not linking to anything... which is how the proposal was earlier. Yeah, I'm really not so sure here, but I am starting to lean towards going back to that, and again, that's how it is on the [[Shooting Star (item)|Shooting Star]] page already. [[User:Technetium|Technetium]] ([[User talk:Technetium|talk]]) 22:39, January 1, 2025 (EST)
-:::::I don't really get where the assumption came from that no one could want to click the icons to go to the file page, despite that being the way images normally work on the wiki. Why is preventing misclicks more important than allowing intentional clicks? {{User:Hewer/sig}} 09:05, January 2, 2025 (EST)
-::::::In this case the images are both rather small and directly next to links to articles. I personally really like to avoid having links to different things right next to each other in general because it can [[Prankster Comet|mislead the reader]] [[Confused|into thinking there's]] [[Link|one continuous link]] and, relevant to image links, makes it annoying to follow a specific link because missing it slightly (Which is especially likely on mobile) takes you somewhere totally different. Then you have to go back and try again, maybe even zooming in to get it properly. I feel like the annoyance this situation causes is worth avoiding at the cost of a slightly less convenient means of getting the image page. I'm only suggesting this because the links in question are going to the very same ingredient articles, which feature full galleries and infoboxes with easy to access images. Compare with {{tem|World link}}.--[[User:PopitTart|PopitTart]] ([[User talk:PopitTart|talk]]) 19:23, January 2, 2025 (EST)
-:::::::I'm definitely starting to lean towards not having the icons link to the files. I just don't know whether I should have the icons link to the item pages or link to nothing. [[User:Technetium|Technetium]] ([[User talk:Technetium|talk]]) 19:35, January 2, 2025 (EST)
-::::::::Having them link to nothing is my least favourite of the three options. If we can't have them link to the file because people are actually trying to click the link next to it, we could at least have the image link to that same page for a better solution to that problem. {{User:Hewer/sig}} 07:25, January 3, 2025 (EST)
-:::::::::That's what I decided to do for now (see below). [[User:Technetium|Technetium]] ([[User talk:Technetium|talk]]) 07:31, January 3, 2025 (EST)
-::::::::::Sorry, but the idea of "accidentally" hitting a tiny image file trying to hit a much larger textual link is an utterly absurd idea, IMO, and even more absurd is it to cater to that already-tenuous hypothetical than the more likely scenario of clicking on the image to go to that image. Why add an extra step? [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 09:31, January 3, 2025 (EST)
-I decided to update the proposal tables using the PM item template, as this is easier to use. I used the PM item template for all three games, but feel free to use PMTTYD item or SPM item when implementing this proposal if you'd prefer, or even the file format I used previously - all of these lead to the same result. But yeah, I think I'm going to have the icons link to the articles - it only makes sense for a reader to want to click on the icon, as PopitTart mentioned on the wiki Discord server (also their comment above). Ultimately, the most important parts of this proposal are how the tables are formatted and the fact there are icons to begin with - I will remain open on what the icons should link to even after it closes / we see how readers feel when this is put into place and adjust if needed. I'm just not sure how to handle the item the page is about... idk if the item template would even work there, and I'd want it to be bold anyway, so I guess we can still use the normal file formatting there (as I said earlier, all that matters is if the result turns out the same; I just demonstrated the method I find simplest for this outline). [[User:Technetium|Technetium]] ([[User talk:Technetium|talk]]) 23:13, January 2, 2025 (EST)
-:If it were ''just'' the icon, that'd make sense. When the words are right there, having them link to the same place is arbitrary, annoying, and completely unnecessary. I don't even want to bother counting the amount of times I've clicked on a sprite for a PM item, hoping to go to that image's sprite, only to end up on its page because of that objectively poor design. Adding an extra step here is not the right option. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 16:59, January 5, 2025 (EST)
-===Simplify "wikitable dk"===
-{{proposal outcome|canceled}}
-This is proposing to slightly simplify the "wikitable dk" class into something that both maintains the elements of a wikitable (such as the gray border and blank background) while maintaining the Donkey Kong theme. Since the current one isn't the most comfortable to read (at least for me), I've thought of a middle ground that I think ultimately looks nicer and feels more consistent with the site design and wikitables in general, so if this proposal passes, the "wikitable dk" style would look like the following:
-{|class="wikitable" width=25%
-!style="color:#fff;background:#9C6936"|Image
-!style="color:#fff;background:#9C6936"|Name
-!style="color:#fff;background:#9C6936"|Amount
-|-style="background:wheat"
-|align="center"|[[File:Awk.png|x50px]]
-|align="center"|[[Awk]]
-|16
-|-
-|align="center"|[[File:Frogoon_screenshot.png|x50px]]
-|align="center"|[[Frogoon]]
-|3
-|-style="background:wheat"
-|align="center"|[[File:TikiGoon.png|x50px]]
-|align="center"|[[Tiki Goon]]
-|4
-|-
-|align="center"|[[File:Screaming_Pillar.png|x50px]]
-|align="center"|[[Screaming Pillar]]
-|4
-|-style="background:wheat"
-|align="center"|[[File:Rawk.png|x50px]]
-|align="center"|[[Rawk]]
-|3
-|}
-'''Proposer''': {{User|Super Mario RPG}}<br>
-'''Deadline''': January 21, 2025, 23:59 GMT
-====Support====
-#{{User|Super Mario RPG}} Per
-====Oppose====
-#{{user|Doc von Schmeltwick}} - The proposed "solution" to the alleged "issue" just looks ugly to me.
-#{{User|Nintendo101}} I think the way they look now is serviceable enough as long as it remains easy to for other users to edit. It does the passive job of communicating to the reader that they are reading a ''Donkey Kong'' article. I'm not opposed to revisions though - maybe things can be further simplified - I just think the one recommended in this proposal is a ''little'' too simple though.
-#{{User|GuntherBayBeee}} I tell you what.
-#{{user|Lakituthequick}} While the existing table style is not winning any prizes, getting rid of colours is not something I support. In fact, if standardised to an extend, I would actually support a bit more colour, especially since the last table proposal.
-#{{user|Fun With Despair}} Honestly, I just think it looks fine as-is. Several professional spreadsheets such as schedules I have worked on also alternate the tones of their rows - it's just easier on the eyes.
-#{{User|Camwoodstock}} Alternating colors are a thing on many, many tables--usually, very large ones, like spreadsheets. While the current one is, admittedly, a ''tad'' gaudy, it's perfectly clear and readable.
-#{{User|Ray Trace}} Per all, especially Lakituthequick
-====Comments====
-why not use a brown heading with white text? {{User:EvieMaybe/sig}} 13:18, January 7, 2025 (EST)
-:{{@|EvieMaybe}} Do you or {{@|Doc von Schmeltwick}} have a suggestion which shade of brown can be used? I stated in the proposal that I'm open for suggestions of a better color to use. [[User:Super Mario RPG|Super Mario RPG]] ([[User talk:Super Mario RPG|talk]]) 13:18, January 7, 2025 (EST)
-::I think it looks just fine as-is... [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 13:20, January 7, 2025 (EST)
-:::It's not the most accessible in my opinion, and it doesn't match the simple aesthetic of this website. It would also fall in line with the precedent set to use simpler table styles. This is the only style with that inconsistency. [[User:Super Mario RPG|Super Mario RPG]] ([[User talk:Super Mario RPG|talk]]) 13:22, January 7, 2025 (EST)
-::::{{@|EvieMaybe}} Okay, so I think I found a shade of brown that works well while still actually making it look like an actual wikitable, so I've altered the wikitable style accordingly. [[User:Super Mario RPG|Super Mario RPG]] ([[User talk:Super Mario RPG|talk]]) 13:24, January 7, 2025 (EST)
-:::::you sure about the colored rows? it doesn't really match the rest of the wiki's style. the darker brown on the top looks pretty good, though. {{User:EvieMaybe/sig}} 18:27, January 7, 2025 (EST)
-::::::Nintendo101 said it looked a bit too simplified, so I added the colors myself. Do you have a different idea for row colors? [[User:Super Mario RPG|Super Mario RPG]] ([[User talk:Super Mario RPG|talk]]) 18:31, January 7, 2025 (EST)
-{{@|Nintendo101}} <s>Want to draft up something that would look less simplified so I can get an idea of what you're stating?</s> Wait, I think I found something. [[User:Super Mario RPG|Super Mario RPG]] ([[User talk:Super Mario RPG|talk]]) 14:12, January 7, 2025 (EST)
-For what it's worth, I have been sitting on a proposal for more colourful table styles since [[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive/70#Encourage_concise.2C_consistent_and_minimalistic_layouts_and_design_for_tables|the last Grand Table Proposal™]], but still need to actually, like, write and post it. As I said in that one, I am not against getting rid of colour, that would only serve to make things more boring.<br>
-I do not actually know how things work when proposals with directly relating goals are posted at the same time, so I will refrain from posting mine until at least after this one settles. {{User:Lakituthequick/sig}} 23:49, 7 January 2025 (UTC)
-:I'll be honest, I was thinking of doing that as well, though I never really had a solid plan. My only idea was to tie it into a similar system on the wiki and use [[MarioWiki:Navigation_templates#Coloration|the same coloration guides as navboxes]] for tables. [[User:Ahemtoday|Ahemtoday]] ([[User talk:Ahemtoday|talk]]) 21:59, January 8, 2025 (EST)