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| ==What is a villain?== | | ==What is a villain?== |
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| Is a villain anyone who opposes the player, regardless of their intentions? Is it anyone who's cruel-hearted, regardless of their role in the story or the gameplay? Does it encompass every enemy and every boss? Does it only include the main antagonist of a given story, or do lesser antagonists also apply? How "cruel" or mean does someone need to be so that they're considered a villain? The obvious examples are, well, obvious enough, but when characters like [[Jr. Troopa]], [[Gooper Blooper]], [[Orbot]], and [[Factory Chief]] are currently being tagged as villains, it really begs the question: what is a villain? {{User:Time Turner/sig}} 23:32, 31 July 2017 (EDT) | | Is a villain anyone who opposes the player, regardless of their intentions? Is it anyone who's cruel-hearted, regardless of their role in the story or the gameplay? Does it encompass every enemy and every boss? Does it only include the main antagonist of a given story, or do lesser antagonists also apply? How "cruel" or mean does someone need to be so that they're considered a villain? The obvious examples are, well, obvious enough, but when characters like [[Jr. Troopa]], [[Gooper Blooper]], [[Orbot]], and [[Factory Chief]] are currently being tagged as villains, it really begs the question: what is a villain? {{User:Time Turner/sig}} 23:32, 31 July 2017 (EDT) |
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| :The first one. Pretty much any antagonist in the story, I guess (which is what the term usually refers to), regardless of how cruel they are (e.g. [[Waluigi]], who can be seen as an antagonist in Mario Power Tennis, is listed, though he's never done anything at [[Dimentio]] levels of cruelty). The ones you mentioned would qualify, except for [[Orbot]], as he's never played such a role in the Mario franchise like he does in the Sonic games. {{User:Mario jc/sig}} 08:19, 1 August 2017 (EDT) | | :The first one. Pretty much any antagonist in the story, I guess (which is what the term usually refers to), regardless of how cruel they are (e.g. [[Waluigi]], who can be seen as an antagonist in Mario Power Tennis, is listed, though he's never done anything at [[Dimentio]] levels of cruelty). The ones you mentioned would qualify, except for [[Orbot]], as he's never played such a role in the Mario franchise like he does in the Sonic games. {{User:Mario jc/sig}} 08:19, 1 August 2017 (EDT) |
| ::So it's entirely a narrative distinction? Would subjects like [[Mummipokey]] and [[Cheepskipper]] also be tagged? {{User:Time Turner/sig}} 08:25, 1 August 2017 (EDT) | | ::So it's entirely a narrative distinction? Would subjects like [[Mummipokey]] and [[Cheepskipper]] also be tagged? {{User:Time Turner/sig}} 08:25, 1 August 2017 (EDT) |
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| :::Eh, actually, I always saw a villain as someone more major and human-like than that. (I might be starting to see what you're getting at with the "cruel" thing.)
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| :::"Villains" are antagonists, we know that, but I think it best describes ''major'' antagonists that have ''clear'' evil intentions and/or hatred towards the protagonist(s) and a human-like desire to vanquish them. So obviously, the main antagonists would apply here, as would certain other major antagonists, but yeah, characters like Jr. Troopa, whose only intention is to get in the way, and the NSMB bosses you mentioned, which strike me as characters that attack on instinct, wouldn't qualify in this case. As another example, [[Wingo]] would be one, but not [[Draggadon]]. I hope that answers your question? {{User:Mario jc/sig}} 04:02, 2 August 2017 (EDT)
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| == Delete this category ==
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| {{Settled TPP}}
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| {{Proposal outcome|passed|10-1|delete}}
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| So, with the surge of [[Special:Contributions/SafariKid2|this guy's edits]] revolving around adding this category to various enemies, I asked myself: "What's the point of this category?" A definition of a villain would be literally any sentient being that opposes the hero. [[Bowser]] definitely falls in this category, but what about [[Bob-omb]] and [[Thwomp]], who appear to be animated objects, or [[Ganondorf]] and [[Metal Face]], who have little bearing on the ''Mario'' universe. imo, the description "Villains in the ''Mario'' franchise" is too broad to really be of anything useful. [[:Category:Enemies]], [[:Category:Bosses]], and their respective sub-categories work just fine, and are better defined, so I really see no reason to keep this. (Yes, I see the above conversation, but that doesn't seem to have concluded properly and doesn't impact my thoughts on this unnecessary category.)
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| '''Proposer:''' {{User|Alex95}}<br>
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| '''Deadline:''' December 24, 2017 23:59 GMT
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| ===Support===
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| #{{User|Alex95}} - This category seems pointless and redundant.
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| #{{User|YoshiStar28}} - That is useless alright. Villains = Bosses
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| #{{User|Toadette the Achiever}} Per both.
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| #{{User|Ultimate Mr. L}} Per all.
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| #{{User|TheFlameChomp}} Per proposal.
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| #{{User|LuigiMaster123}} Per all.
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| #{{User|Archieboy000}} Per all.
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| #{{User|YoshiFlutterJump}} Per all. We have categories for enemies and bosses, so why this?
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| #{{User|BBQ Turtle}} Per all, some characters are villains sometimes and heroes others, so the definition seems rather loose.
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| #{{User|Andymii}} Per all.
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| ===Oppose===
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| #{{User|Doc von Schmeltwick}} I believe this category has merit for usage with characters who are explicitly called "evil," "villanous," etc.
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| ===Comments===
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| For everyone saying "Villains=Bosses," tell me, is [[Jinx]] a villain? How about [[Lee]], [[Chan]], [[The Master]], [[Wisdurm]], [[Chakron]].... [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 00:12, 10 December 2017 (EST)
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| :More examples: Every boss in ''Wario Land 3'' except the final one was merely trying to prevent Wario from releasing said final boss, and as such they were not villains. And how about villains who aren't bosses? [[Nastasia]] comes to mind, as do several non-game villains, like [[Polly Roger]], [[Queen Rotunda]], [[Piranha Sue]], etc.... [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 00:25, 10 December 2017 (EST)
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| ::The point I was trying to make is Villains =/= Bosses entirely. Villains would be any living thing that opposes the player character (meaning things like [[Fire Bar]]s don't count) and are explicitly stated to be evil. Not all enemies and bosses are villains, sure, but every (if not-a majority) villain seems to be either an enemy or a boss, which is why this category seems redundant to me. {{User:Alex95/sig}} 09:47, 10 December 2017 (EST)
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