Editing Category talk:Unlockables

This category should ideally be split int subcategories, such as [[:Category:Unlockable characters]], [[:Category:Unlockable karts]], [[:Category:Unlockable microgames]], etc. Placing it here in case anyone would like to help out with it. If not, then note to self :P

{{User:YoshiKong/sig}} 15:42, 5 October 2016 (EDT)
:Not against it, but there are a LOT of unlockables to go through... {{User:Alex95/sig}} 15:46, 5 October 2016 (EDT)
::One way of running through this is if one person starts from the beginning of the category and another starts from the end. If more people want to pitch in, they can start at one of the middle category pages. Do you want to run through this now? {{User:Time Turner/sig}} 16:02, 5 October 2016 (EDT)

:::I couldn't start on it today. Maybe we should go through it letter by letter, and then when people have sorted through a letter, just post a quick comment here. And then people like me can jump in when they feel like it, bit by bit.
:::{{User:YoshiKong/sig}} 16:07, 5 October 2016 (EDT)
::::I will help, but will be more active at this later. {{User:Yoshi the Space Station Manager/sig}} 16:17, 5 October 2016 (EDT)
:::::Actually, before anyone gets started, an "Unlockable Microgames" category is unnecessary since literally ''every'' microgame is necessarily unlockable. It'd be sufficient to make [[:Category:Microgames]] a subcategory of this one. {{User:Time Turner/sig}} 16:20, 5 October 2016 (EDT)
::::::Not true. 1, 2, Robot is not an unlockable, unless it says so on another article. There are many others to mention, but it will take too long. {{User:Yoshi the Space Station Manager/sig}}
:::::::As I do not own DIY or DIY Showcase, I cannot confirm if they are actually not unlockable or if the category simply hadn't been placed on their page, but every other games' microgames are unlockables, even if the category is not on their page. {{User:Time Turner/sig}} 16:53, 5 October 2016 (EDT)

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On second thought, I think "Cat:Unlockable Karts" is best named as "Unlockable Karts and Bikes".

{{User:YoshiKong/sig}} 16:58, 5 October 2016 (EDT)
:Maybe "Cat:Unlockable Vehicles" would be better for futureproofing. Off the top of my head, I can't think of any examples of unlockable vehicles that aren't karts or bikes, but it might come in handy. {{User:Time Turner/sig}} 17:04, 5 October 2016 (EDT)
:Whatever we do, B Dasher, Spear, Sneakster, and Comet need to be added to unlockables. {{User:Yoshi the Space Station Manager/sig}} 17:08, 5 October 2016 (EDT)

@TT: There are the ''DKC3'' vehicles unlockable at [[Funky's Rentals]]: [[Hover Craft]], [[Turbo Ski]], [[Gyrocopter]]. But I think it's best for the ''MK'' unlockable vehicles to be separate.

{{User:YoshiKong/sig}} 17:12, 5 October 2016 (EDT)
:What's the alternative for those vehicles, though? A separate category for other vehicles wouldn't have that many entries, so would they just stay on the main Unlockables category? {{User:Time Turner/sig}} 17:15, 5 October 2016 (EDT)
::Or Unlockable Vehicles could work like Vehicles, but I don't know how much better or worst it is. {{User:Yoshi the Space Station Manager/sig}} 17:18, 5 October 2016 (EDT)

I really don't want to do this by myself you know. {{User:Yoshi the Space Station Manager/sig}} 17:54, 17 October 2016 (EDT)

== Purpose ==

What even ''is'' the purpose of this category? I mean, I get the purpose, but what I don't get is the scope. Given the current scope (not including the discussion above this one), we could include ''every single level in every single linear level-based game'' (save the very first level of each respective game). {{User:Toadette the Achiever/sig}} 10:43, 29 October 2018 (EDT)
:I think this category is meant for things (levels, items, etc.) that are unlocked when a specific requirement is met, or when the game goes "Hey, you unlocked a new thing!". I wouldn't consider levels you play through linear progression unlockable. {{User:Alex95/sig}} 11:36, 29 October 2018 (EDT)

== Scope, take 2 ==

Never mind that the name "Unlockables" is informal for this wiki and should instead be "Unlockable content", I have many other problems with this category. I'm not comfortable with making a proposal for something of this scope yet, but I'd like to discuss these issues to see if one is necessary.

Some of these can be easily fixed—moving seemingly misplaced subjects to subcategories, like moving [[Alex]] and [[Pink Gold Peach]] to [[:Category:Unlockable characters]]; creating new subcategories like {{fake link|Category:Unlockable courts}}, {{fake link|Category:Unlockable minigames}}, {{fake link|Category:Unlockable tires}}, and so on; etc.

Other problems? Make me doubt the usefulness of this category. First of which is how broadly the term can be defined, and the inconsistencies that result. For example, we have [[Dashell]] and [[Piccolo]] in here, yet not [[Ms. Mowz]] or any other optional features in the RPGs. There's also a problem with subjects unlockable in some games and available from the start in others—like the [[Flower Cup]] being unlockable in ''Mario Kart 7'' and the original ''Mario Kart 8'', or much of the aforementioned [[:Category:Unlockable characters]]. And while we're on the topic, wouldn't content required to beat a given game fall under linear level progression, even if there ''is'' a notification when you unlock it? I'm not talking about content unlocked as a reward for doing certain tasks, but rather things like cups in spin-offs. In most ''Mario Kart'' games, for example, one must unlock and win the Special Cup (and the Lightning Cup since ''Mario Kart DS'') to even see the credits.

With all this in mind, should we merely clean up this category, try to come up with a tighter definition for it, or delete it and its subcategories outright? I thought about dividing unlockable content by game rather than type, but I realized that'd lead to ''way'' too many categories to keep track of. Do you see how many categories [[Bowser]] falls under? Imagine adding each unlockable appearance of his there. [[User:ShootingStar7X|ShootingStar7X]] ([[User talk:ShootingStar7X|talk]]) 23:31, September 17, 2022 (EDT)

:I think we should clean up this category. Coming up with a tighter definition would work as well. However, deleting it and its subcategories means that all the hard work that went into these categories is wasted. I'm against outright deletion, but the other two options are fine. [[User:Mari0fan100|Mari0fan100]] ([[User talk:Mari0fan100|talk]]) 02:27, September 18, 2022 (EDT)
::The reason I even considered outright deletion is out of concern this may be too broad. Looking at [[:Category:Unlockable characters]] alone, ''nearly every playable character in ''Smash'' is present'' due to ''Super Smash Bros. Ultimate''. If we ''do'' go about giving the category strict criteria, I'd support not listing cups, for the reasons mentioned above. [[User:ShootingStar7X|ShootingStar7X]] ([[User talk:ShootingStar7X|talk]]) 13:18, September 18, 2022 (EDT)

== Delete this category and its subcategories ==

{{Settled TPP}}
{{Proposal outcome|passed|11-0|delete}}
After some discussion in [[Category talk:Unlockable race courses]], I've gotten the impetus to make this proposal. As others have said there and I've in the discussion above, this category and its subcategories are problematic and should be deleted. To summarize:
*Since we're covering every game in the ''Mario'' franchise and related franchises, it's impossible to discriminate content being available from the start in one game versus it being unlockable in another. Unhelpfully, this has lead to ''nearly every'' playable character in the ''Super Smash Bros.'' series being in [[:Category:Unlockable characters]] because of ''Super Smash Bros. Ultimate'' and some other games, as well as [[:Category:Unlockable race courses]] containing almost all of the ''Mario Kart'' courses.
*The category has seen broad usage to the point where it includes things like [[Dashell|some optional]] [[Piccolo|party members]] but [[Ms. Mowz|not others]]; [[List of Mario Party DS collectibles|collectibles]] when there's already [[:Category:Collectibles|a category for them]]; [[Luigi's NEW Mansion|a mere ending screen]]; etc.
*Cups and the courses within are included when unlocking them isn't dissimilar to unlocking new worlds and levels in a platformer game — all that differs is a notification and a fanfare. Is it really "unlockable" if it's necessary to beat the game?
Subcategories not wholly related to unlockables — [[:Category:Microgames]], [[:Category:Souvenirs]], [[:Category:WarioWare, Inc.: Mega Microgame$! minigames]], and [[:Category:WarioWare: Smooth Moves minigames]] — will remain unaffected by this proposal.

'''Proposer''': {{User|ShootingStar7X}}<br>
'''Deadline''': December 23, 2022, 23:59 GMT

====Support====
#{{User|ShootingStar7X}} Per all.
#{{User|Waluigi Time}} Per proposal and my comments on [[Category talk:Unlockable race courses]]. These categories are just too broad to be helpful. Game-specific categories would be a better alternative, if they were warranted.
#{{user|WildWario}} Every course (and maybe cups) in MKT can be "unlockable", so... Per proposal.
#{{User|Hewer}} Per all, I've been confused as to what the purpose of these categories even is since I first saw them.
#{{User|Swallow}} Per all
#{{User|RHG1951}} Per all.
#{{User|Platform}} Per all.
#{{User|ThePowerPlayer}} Per all.
#{{User|Killer Moth}} Per all.
#{{User|SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA)}} Per all, but especially per Waluigi Time.
#{{User|TheFlameChomp}} Per all.

====Oppose====

====Comments====