Editing Category talk:Minor NPCs

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==Necessity==
==Necessity==
{{talk}}
Is this category really necessary? It lumps characters from no less than 11 different games together, specifically the RPGs, so other minor non-playable characters such as the [[Pianta captain]] are not included. Also, despite the rules listed in [[Mariowiki:Minor NPCs]], they are often disregarded and shopkeepers sometimes make the list. Furthermore, non-player characters with a respectable amount of weight on the plot, such as [[Pa-Patch]] and the [[Fahr Outpost Mayor]], are listed as well. I wouldn't consider that "minor." I'd consider "minor" to be "literally has no importance and can be talked to." And that subjectivity is another problem: the term "minor" is too subject to opinion. My point is this category is fairly arbitrary, the content can be easily gained from the games' respective character categories, and as of now covers [[Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars|e]][[Paper Mario|l]][[Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga|e]][[Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door|v]][[Mario & Luigi: Partners in Time|e]][[Super Paper Mario|n]] [[Mario & Luigi: Bowser's Inside Story|di]][[Paper Mario: Sticker Star|ff]][[Mario & Luigi: Paper Jam|er]][[Paper Mario: Color Splash|ent]] games, plus a [[Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga + Bowser's Minions|remake]], all in one category. This made more sense when the wiki was just starting out and there were only five RPGs out, but not any more. It could probably be deleted and we wouldn't lose anything. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 18:21, 26 September 2017 (EDT)
Is this category really necessary? It lumps characters from no less than 11 different games together, specifically the RPGs, so other minor non-playable characters such as the [[Pianta captain]] are not included. Also, despite the rules listed in [[Mariowiki:Minor NPCs]], they are often disregarded and shopkeepers sometimes make the list. Furthermore, non-player characters with a respectable amount of weight on the plot, such as [[Pa-Patch]] and the [[Fahr Outpost Mayor]], are listed as well. I wouldn't consider that "minor." I'd consider "minor" to be "literally has no importance and can be talked to." And that subjectivity is another problem: the term "minor" is too subject to opinion. My point is this category is fairly arbitrary, the content can be easily gained from the games' respective character categories, and as of now covers [[Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars|e]][[Paper Mario|l]][[Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga|e]][[Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door|v]][[Mario & Luigi: Partners in Time|e]][[Super Paper Mario|n]] [[Mario & Luigi: Bowser's Inside Story|di]][[Paper Mario: Sticker Star|ff]][[Mario & Luigi: Paper Jam|er]][[Paper Mario: Color Splash|ent]] games, plus a [[Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga + Bowser's Minions|remake]], all in one category. This made more sense when the wiki was just starting out and there were only five RPGs out, but not any more. It could probably be deleted and we wouldn't lose anything. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 18:21, 26 September 2017 (EDT)
:Even if we had a rigid definition for minor NPCs, I don't think that the quantifiable importance of a character is particularly relevant to us, especially to the point where we need a category for it. All of the characters in this category are "minor" for completely different reasons, so grouping them all together has always seemed odd to me. I'm in favor of completely deleting it. {{User:Time Turner/sig}} 18:31, 26 September 2017 (EDT)
:Even if we had a rigid definition for minor NPCs, I don't think that the quantifiable importance of a character is particularly relevant to us, especially to the point where we need a category for it. All of the characters in this category are "minor" for completely different reasons, so grouping them all together has always seemed odd to me. I'm in favor of completely deleting it. {{User:Time Turner/sig}} 18:31, 26 September 2017 (EDT)


==Delete this category==
==Delete this category==
{{Settled TPP}}
{{TPP}}
{{Proposal outcome|passed|5-1|delete}}
I've outlined my reasons above. There's no reason to have a category specifically for characters from 11 different games plus a remake when each of them have their own character categories, particularly for something as subjective as this.
I've outlined my reasons above. There's no reason to have a category specifically for characters from 11 different games plus a remake when each of them have their own character categories, particularly for something as subjective as this.


'''Proposer:''' {{User|Doc von Schmeltwick}}<br>
'''Proposer:''' [[User|Doc von Schmeltwick]]<br>
'''Deadline:''' 23:59 October 16, 2017 (GMT)
'''Deadline:''' 23:59 October 16, 2017 (GMT)


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#{{User|Niiue}} Per proposal.
#{{User|Niiue}} Per proposal.
#{{User|Time Turner}} Per all.
#{{User|Time Turner}} Per all.
#{{User|Waluigi Time}} Per all.
#{{User|TheFlameChomp}} Per all.


===Oppose===
===Oppose===
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===Comments===
===Comments===
@Camwood: How would you define a minor NPC, then, in such a way that this would actually be a valid category? Part of why I want to scrap this category is also simply that I don't think it's necessary to note every minor NPC. {{User:Time Turner/sig}} 11:58, 8 October 2017 (EDT)
@Camwood: How would you define a minor NPC, then, in such a way that this would actually be a valid category? Part of why I want to scrap this category is also simply that I don't think it's necessary to note every minor NPC. {{User:Time Turner/sig}} 11:58, 8 October 2017 (EDT)
:While this definition will certainly vary from person to person, a minor NPC can be defined (to me) as one that has a name, can be spoken to (or speaks in general, and this is excused if the character simply doesn't speak as part of their characteristics), and shares some role, no matter how minor it may seem. An example would be Tayce T.. While not important to completing the game, she has a name, can be talked to, and has the purpose of being the cook in Toad Town , as well as letting the players cook food. Again, while other people no doubt share a different definition, this is my basic template for "minor NPCs notable enough to be included as a page on the wiki + in this category." '''''[[User:Camwood777|<font color="red">~Camwood777</font>]]''' [[User talk:Camwood777|<font color="red">(talk)</font>]]'' 15:17, 10 October 2017 (EDT)
::If she gives you items, how the heck is she minor? [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 21:04, 10 October 2017 (EDT)
:::Because you're not required to interact with her to complete the game. You can go the whole game without using Zess T.'s cooking outside of the required case of the cake she automatically creates for you when you give her the frying pan, and while it'd be more difficult not knowing about it, you can still do it, though the game *does* encourage you to do so. '''''[[User:Camwood777|<font color="red">~Camwood777</font>]]''' [[User talk:Camwood777|<font color="red">(talk)</font>]]'' 08:14, 11 October 2017 (EDT)
::::You literally just contradicted yourself. You said interacting with her is not required to beat the game, then said she's required to pass a roadblock that needs to be passed to complete the game. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 14:29, 11 October 2017 (EDT)
:::::Fair point. However, the main purpose she has that you'll need her for--cooking items--is mostly optional. Even if she is required to visit once, she has no impact on the story outside of that select incident. That seems quite like a minor, but notable character if you ask me. Basically, required or no--she does have a purpose, and even though she's not a critical party member or anything actively involved in the story outside of a handful of situations or their own personal arc (for instance, [[Flavio]] follows you for a chapter or so, and ceases to be relevant to the story after the chapter), she ''does'' possess a name, her own dialog, and has a purpose. Hence I feel she can be classed as a minor NPC.<br>Note that if you disagree with my definition, that's totally fine. In fact, I ''expect'' you to do so; "minor" has no concrete definition here, so technically, none of us are right. I'm just giving my two cents as to what I feel a minor character is.<br>tl;dr: i am aware i kinda did a dumb. however, required or no, she has no major plot bearing outside of the select instance, hence i feel in the right in defining her as "minor". '''''[[User:Camwood777|<font color="red">~Camwood777</font>]]''' [[User talk:Camwood777|<font color="red">(talk)</font>]]'' 14:43, 11 October 2017 (EDT)

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