Editing Category talk:Merchants and Salespeople

==Merge [[:Category:Merchants and Salespeople]] and [[:Category:Shopkeepers]]==
{{TPP}}
The two categories above both serve the same purpose of listing every character who actively vends items to the player. The only difference is that one of them lists the vendors that do not have a brick-and-mortar store and the other one lists the vendors that do - I think, anyways, as the categories don't actually have a definition of what a shopkeeper or a merchant actually is. Still, that distinction is really arbitrary and not particularly beneficial. Both [[Dazzle]] and [[Niff T.]] sell items to the player in the same manner; slotting them into different categories makes them seem as if there's more of a distinction than there actually is. Practically, there's no difference, and functionally, there's no benefit. Therefore, I want to merge the two together.

'''Proposer''': {{User|Time Turner}}<br>
'''Deadline''': September 20, 2017, 23:59 GMT

===Support===
#{{User|Time Turner}} Per proposal.
#{{User|Doc von Schmeltwick}} I saw the separation, ws bugged by it, and promptly forgot before I could make a proposal. Per proposal.
#{{user|Mario jc}} No reason they should be kept separate. Per proposal.
#{{User|Toadette the Achiever}} Per Mario jc.
#{{User|TheFlameChomp}} Per all.
#{{User|Niiue}} Per all.

===Oppose===

===Comments===
I was going to support, but then I clicked on the categories and found out that Shopkeepers are a subcategory of this category. So, instead of it being a subcategory, you are proposing to merge them. On one hand, shopkeepers have actual shops to keep, while merchants and salespeople have other things. I have a few examples. [[Welderberg]] receives money. Not to give you something back, but to make a pipe to another location. [[Sunglasses vendor]] gives Mario sunglasses and later a shirt, but doesn't require money. [[Merluvlee]] shows locations of stuff (which can be useless if you use the internet) in the first two games she's in, and give hints to where to go to next in the last two games. And [[Merlee]] gives randomly items and this randomization is base on what is paid (mostly). All these are basically services. But, on the other hand, [[Funky Kong]] has done both. In the first three Donkey Kong Country games, his service is aircraft (and boats in 3) and minigames. But in [[Donkey Kong Country: Tropical Freeze]], he is a shopkeeper. Since he can easily fit in both, it would make it harder for these categories to coexist. {{User:Yoshi the Space Station Manager/sig}} 00:03, 7 September 2017 (EDT)

:Besides Yoshi the SSM's argument, there's also the fact that both categories are considerably large (Merchants and Salespeople has 41 pages, Shopkeepers has 45). Keeping them split eases navigation. Still, the similarity is there.
:{{User:Ultimate Mr. L/sig}} 23:05, 8 September 2017 (EDT)
::Being big is hardly a reason to split it, especially when they're being split through arbitrary divisions. Shall we split [[:Category:Humans]] between everyone that appears inside a building and everyone that appears outside one? And @Yoshi, what definitions are you using for the terms "shopkeeper", "merchant", and "salesperson"? {{User:Time Turner/sig}} 23:09, 8 September 2017 (EDT)

Should the proposal pass, which category is going to be the final decision? Or is it going to be called something different? {{User:Alex95/sig}} 23:22, 8 September 2017 (EDT)
:Personally, I was thinking we could stick with "Category:Shopkeepers" and then potentially trim off a few entries. Rather than list everyone who happens to be in a shop, like [[Abby]] and [[Lahla]], I think that it'd be more beneficial to list the people who actually buy, sell, or otherwise trade goods with the player. If that's too radical, then we'll use "Category:Merchants" and keep it simple but broad. {{User:Time Turner/sig}} 23:37, 8 September 2017 (EDT)
::Listing those that simply exist in a shop wouldn't make sense, since they don't really do any "shopkeeping". They could be customers. It'd be best to trim the category if needed to to include only those that actually manage a shop of some kind. {{User:Alex95/sig}} 23:40, 8 September 2017 (EDT)
@@ Line 1: / Line 1: @@
 ==Merge [[:Category:Merchants and Salespeople]] and [[:Category:Shopkeepers]]==
-{{Settled TPP}}
+{{TPP}}
-{{Proposal outcome|passed|11-0}}
 The two categories above both serve the same purpose of listing every character who actively vends items to the player. The only difference is that one of them lists the vendors that do not have a brick-and-mortar store and the other one lists the vendors that do - I think, anyways, as the categories don't actually have a definition of what a shopkeeper or a merchant actually is. Still, that distinction is really arbitrary and not particularly beneficial. Both [[Dazzle]] and [[Niff T.]] sell items to the player in the same manner; slotting them into different categories makes them seem as if there's more of a distinction than there actually is. Practically, there's no difference, and functionally, there's no benefit. Therefore, I want to merge the two together.
@@ Line 14: / Line 13: @@
 #{{User|TheFlameChomp}} Per all.
 #{{User|Niiue}} Per all.
-#{{User|Alex95}} - Per all.
-#{{User|Ultimate Mr. L}} Per proposal and Alex95's comments below.
-#{{User|Yoshi the SSM}} Per all and per my comments below.
-#{{User|Camwood777}} - This really feels like one of those categories that only came about because someone didn't know we already had a category, but they used a different term, so now we're stuck with both. A merge is pretty obviously in order.
-#{{User|LuigiMaster123}} Per all.
 ===Oppose===
@@ Line 28: / Line 22: @@
 :{{User:Ultimate Mr. L/sig}} 23:05, 8 September 2017 (EDT)
 ::Being big is hardly a reason to split it, especially when they're being split through arbitrary divisions. Shall we split [[:Category:Humans]] between everyone that appears inside a building and everyone that appears outside one? And @Yoshi, what definitions are you using for the terms "shopkeeper", "merchant", and "salesperson"? {{User:Time Turner/sig}} 23:09, 8 September 2017 (EDT)
-:::I don't have a computer to look at, but I know that they are similar (one is even a sub category of the other). But I do have easy access to my Wii. If you know [[Flimm]], you should know that he sells stuff like the other shop owners (shopkeepers), but is called a salesman (salesperson) in ''[[Super Paper Mario]]''. Wanted to point that out.
-::::And the difference between them being? {{User:Time Turner/sig}} 23:43, 8 September 2017 (EDT)
-:::::The difference between Flimm and the others save for he's always outdoors is that the things he sells change in a randomizing way. Not much, anyway. I am going to bed soon, so I will find the difference between shopkeeper and the other two in the morning. {{User:Yoshi the Space Station Manager/sig}} 23:59, 8 September 2017 (EDT)
-:::::Now that I have my computer, I can search for the definitions. By the way, I started with Microsoft Word then move to Bing searches.
-:::::*In word, merchant is define as a shop keeper and store keeper, shopkeeper is defined sales person, and salesperson is defined as street trader or sales rep.
-:::::*Bing searching, I found merchant means "a person or company involved in wholesale trade, especially one dealing with foreign countries or supplying merchandise to a particular trade", shopkeeper means "the owner and manager of a shop", and salesperson means "a salesman or saleswoman (used as a neutral alternative)". The last one seems vague. So, a salesman means "a man whose job involves selling or promoting commercial products, either in a store or visiting locations to get orders".
-:::::As you can see, they are similar. But with this knowledge, I can say that having this category be named Salespeople seems like a good name after this is merged. {{User:Yoshi the Space Station Manager/sig}} 11:34, 9 September 2017 (EDT)
 Should the proposal pass, which category is going to be the final decision? Or is it going to be called something different? {{User:Alex95/sig}} 23:22, 8 September 2017 (EDT)
 :Personally, I was thinking we could stick with "Category:Shopkeepers" and then potentially trim off a few entries. Rather than list everyone who happens to be in a shop, like [[Abby]] and [[Lahla]], I think that it'd be more beneficial to list the people who actually buy, sell, or otherwise trade goods with the player. If that's too radical, then we'll use "Category:Merchants" and keep it simple but broad. {{User:Time Turner/sig}} 23:37, 8 September 2017 (EDT)
-::Listing those that simply exist in a shop wouldn't make sense, since they don't really do any "shopkeeping". They could be customers, and we don't really see employees in games doing much. It'd be best to trim the category if needed to to include only those that actually manage a shop of some kind or sell things. {{User:Alex95/sig}} 23:40, 8 September 2017 (EDT)
+::Listing those that simply exist in a shop wouldn't make sense, since they don't really do any "shopkeeping". They could be customers. It'd be best to trim the category if needed to to include only those that actually manage a shop of some kind. {{User:Alex95/sig}} 23:40, 8 September 2017 (EDT)
-:::I didn't quite mean it that way. Abby, for example, is an employee at the [[D.I.Y. Shop]], but not once does she actually partake in any shopping with the player. She's there as a tutorial and not as any sort of shopkeeper. Those are the kinds of people I want to get rid of. {{User:Time Turner/sig}} 23:43, 8 September 2017 (EDT)
-::::Yeah, that's what I meant :P Just keep the ones that actually sell something on the list. {{User:Alex95/sig}} 23:46, 8 September 2017 (EDT)