Editing Category talk:Game series

==Remove "(series)" identifier from titles that don't need it==
{{TPP}}
It seems that every game series on this wiki has a "series" identifier. This makes sense for game series that actually need the identifier, however, there's some that just completely don't need it. I've heard many say it's for "consistency", but that doesn't make any sense. Identifiers are used to distinguish pages with titles of the same name, not just to make it similar to pages that actually need the identifier. I believe the "series" identifier should be removed from the pages that don't need it. The pages that don't need this identification yet still have it are;
*''[[Just Dance (series)|Just Dance]]''
*''[[Mario & Sonic (series)|Mario & Sonic]]''
*''[[Mario + Rabbids (series)|Mario + Rabbids]]''
*''[[Mario Discovery (series)|Mario Discovery]]'' (I'll talk more about this one later)
*''[[Mario Kart (series)|Mario Kart]]''
*''[[Mario Strikers (series)|Mario Strikers]]''
*''[[WarioWare (series)|WarioWare]]''
Per [[Talk:Mario Discovery (series)#Rename to Mario Discovery Series?|a discussion on the ''Mario Discovery'' page]], the series' [[:File:MarioDiscoverylogo.jpg|logo]] refers to it as the "Mario Discovery Series", therefore, the "Mario Discovery" name isn't the full title. If this proposal gets through, I'd like for that page to be named as so too.

'''Proposer''': {{User|Starluxe}}<br>'''Deadline''': October 15, 2024, 23:59 GMT

===Support===
#{{User|Starluxe}} Per proposal
#{{user|7feetunder}} I don't understand this whole argument about "clarifying" things at all. Yes, having the identifier there "clarifies" that it's a series, but so does the first sentence of the article. Why does the ''[[Paper Mario]]'' article not need to "clarify" that it's about the game and not the [[Paper Mario (series)|series]] until you actually start reading it, but ''Mario Kart'' has to let you know right away that it's a series even though none if its installments share a title with it? If someone seriously searches "Mario Kart" looking for a specific installment, they already have to read the series article to find the installment they want anyway, so the identifier isn't actually helping the reader, it's just making the article slightly more annoying to link to.
#{{User|Koopa con Carne}} per feet.
#{{User|Altendo}} I often prefer consistency, but in this case, I feel like adding the (series) identifier at the end for series that don't have a game with the exact same title feels like a waste of space. It redirects there anyways, so I feel like removing them would just make it a lot easier to directly link to without extra loading time created by redirects. Either that or the series name without the (series) identifier can be made a disambiguation page that links both the series and first game in said series. I'm leaning more towards just removing the (series) identifier for series that don't need them.
#{{User|SolemnStormcloud}} Per all.
#{{User|Hewer}} I was originally planning on not voting, but since "[[Talk:Mario Discovery (series)#Rename to Mario Discovery Series?|Mario Discovery Series]]" seems to be an actual name and I don't want "Mario Discovery Series (series)", I guess I'll support.
#{{User|Jdtendo}} The identifier is redundant, per all.

===Oppose===
#{{User|Nightwicked Bowser}} Even if these titles are not shared with other articles, the identifiers still serve to straight-up show it's about the series as a whole.
#{{User|Nintendo101}} I agree we should not employee consistency for consistency's sake - only if it is beneficial. In this case, individual video games and books are italicized as well as series and franchises, and I don't assume readers will immediately know the difference when they look up a page's name. Many people call individual games ''WarioWare'' in shorthand and may not know the names of individual titles, for example. I think "(series)" is immediately clarifying and harmless, and I would prefer it is retained.
#{{User|Sparks}} Per all.
#{{User|Pseudo}} Per all.
#{{User|EvieMaybe}} having the clarification helps more than it harms

===Comments===
I mean, what makes the game series so important that only they need the specification if it doesn't have a shared name? At that point, we'll have names like "Mario (character)". But I could get behind ''WarioWare'' and possibly ''Mario Kart'' becoming disambiguation pages. {{User:Starluxe/sig}} 16:51, October 1, 2024 (GMT)
:Could you elaborate on what you mean by "importance?" My position here is that incorporating "(series)" is immediately clarifying, helpful, and harmless. — [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 12:24, October 1, 2024 (EDT)
::What considers a subject in need of clarifying no matter what? What makes game series different to other subjects? I don't see any reason why game series that don't share titles need identifiers, but other pages don't. {{User:Starluxe/sig}} 21:08, October 1, 2024 (GMT)
:::Okay, I understand. To me, clarifying that the subject of the article is a "series" in the title is one of the ways the systematics of the franchise are communicated to readers, and that is not trivial in my view, in part because we are a video game wiki first and foremost. How games are organized and how the relate to each other is valuable and contextualizing to understand, and important to communicate. It is not quite the same as distinguishing the things in the games (i.e. characters, enemies, items, etc.) that happen to have the same name. That is my view, at least.
:::More substantively, for a lot of players and potential visitors to this site, ''Mario Kart'' is the name of whatever game they had most recently played, so in a conceptual sense a ''Mario Kart'' article is already occupied by ''[[Super Mario Kart]]'', ''[[Mario Kart 64]]'', etc. So including "(series)" at the end of the [[Mario Kart (series)|''Mario Kart'' (series)]] article is just immediately clarifying that: 1.) there are multiple related games called "''Mario Kart''" and 2.) the one you are looking for is listed here (which also means it is already serving the same role a disambiguation page would). I think including "series" in the title makes that all the more readily apparent. I have not really heard a persuasive reason that removing "(series)" would be an improvement. - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 17:24, October 1, 2024 (EDT)

Another thought I've had: take the word "series" out of the identifier having the title be like "''Paper Mario'' series". {{User:Nightwicked Bowser/sig}} 16:57, October 1, 2024 (EDT)
:I don't think I would be opposed to that. - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 17:24, October 1, 2024 (EDT)

{{@|Hewer}} As someone who's still on the fence on voting, I think that we don't necessarily ''have'' to add a (series) identifier if the official title already includes "Series" in it. I mean, our article on [[Arcade Classics Series]] isn't called {{fake link|Arcade Classics Series (series)}}, is it?<br>BTW {{@|Starluxe}}, about the proposal itself, wouldn't [[Mario Baseball (series)]] also be affected? There's nothing else with that title already, even the games within said series ([[Mario Super Sluggers]] doesn't even have "baseball" in the title. <s>A big reason why I think it's okay to rename [[DK (series)]] to {{fake link|DK: King of Swing (series)}} but that's irrelevant to the conversation</s>). {{User:Arend/sig}} 01:12, October 4, 2024 (EDT)
:I agree with this 100%. Why add "series" to the article title if it is already in the name of thing? - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 01:26, October 4, 2024 (EDT)
:You're right that it's unnecessary, that's why I don't want it. But I think having just one or two series pages that don't have the "(series)" identifier is a more egregious inconsistency than the one that the "(series)" identifiers already cause, so I want to avoid that too. {{User:Hewer/sig}} 02:41, October 4, 2024 (EDT)

Similar to Arend's comment about Mario Baseball: why is [[Famicom Grand Prix]] excluded? That link currently leads to a tiny disambiguation with just the series and its two games. {{User:Hewer/sig}} 02:58, October 4, 2024 (EDT)
:Wait, why does that disambiguation page even exist? This isn't like three things sharing the exact same title, and they're all related in the way that Hewer already described. That's like as if [[Mario Kart]] was a disambiguation page. "Famicom Grand Prix" should've just been a redirect to the series page regardless of this proposal. {{User:Arend/sig}} 11:23, October 4, 2024 (EDT)

Also, I've said this on [[Talk:DK (series)]] before, but I actually think that the Mario & Sonic series page should be moved to ''{{fake link|Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Games (series)}}''. As I've stated back then, literally ''every single game'' in this subseries takes place at the Olympic Games, and always features the words "at the Olympic Games" in their titles; whereas simply ''Mario & Sonic'' would imply it's a broader series that includes a variety Mario and Sonic crossovers that don't necessarily take place at the Olympic Games, which is not the case at all. It seems that "Mario & Sonic" was chosen by the community for the sake of brevity rather than accuracy, much like [[The Old Psychic Lady with the Evil Eye Who Reads Fortunes and Knows Everything Before It Happens|that old psychic lady]].<br>As such, since there's already [[Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Games (Nintendo DS)|two]] [[Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Games (Wii)|titles]] with that name, it would require the (series) identifier if we do rename it to the ''Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Games'' series. {{User:Arend/sig}} 11:19, October 4, 2024 (EDT)
:Yeah, I've never understood why we don't use the full title for that series. {{User:Hewer/sig}} 11:39, October 4, 2024 (EDT)